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  1. #21
    john harris & sons's Avatar
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    FUCK!!!!! It's all over now fellas ! I thought his vid was cute

  2. #22

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    AJ Sousa BJJ (SousaBJJ.com)
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    HAHA this thread is so awesome. 10th planet practitioners praise themselves on being so open minded. That is, unless of course someone makes anything anti-rubber guard or anti twister. Then it becomes very hostile and ridiculing of the person making the video. Gotta love it. Just saying

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ericp View Post
    HAHA this thread is so awesome. 10th planet practitioners praise themselves on being so open minded. That is, unless of course someone makes anything anti-rubber guard or anti twister. Then it becomes very hostile and ridiculing of the person making the video. Gotta love it. Just saying
    The harsh truth ^^ Not saying everyone but for every 10PJJ hater, there is a 10PJJ practitioner hating them right back in proportion. We're all human. Different strokes for different folks. If anything, Garry Tonon is showing respect to 10th planet by accepting the rubber guard as a legitimate threat and searching for answers to beat it. He won the EBI, so obviously he has knows a little something about how to defend it. It's always the same comments when someone posts a video of someone showing how to beat a 10PJJ move "his partner wasn't doing the move properly" or "all you would have to do is this or that". Idk how your school does it but at my school, when someone is showing a move on you, you don't resist 100% and keep everything tight and you definitely don't counter what he's doing because there is a counter to everything.

  4. #24
    Chad Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericp View Post
    HAHA this thread is so awesome. 10th planet practitioners praise themselves on being so open minded. That is, unless of course someone makes anything anti-rubber guard or anti twister. Then it becomes very hostile and ridiculing of the person making the video. Gotta love it. Just saying


    Quote Originally Posted by Justin W. View Post
    The harsh truth ^^ Not saying everyone but for every 10PJJ hater, there is a 10PJJ practitioner hating them right back in proportion. We're all human. Different strokes for different folks. If anything, Garry Tonon is showing respect to 10th planet by accepting the rubber guard as a legitimate threat and searching for answers to beat it. He won the EBI, so obviously he has knows a little something about how to defend it. It's always the same comments when someone posts a video of someone showing how to beat a 10PJJ move "his partner wasn't doing the move properly" or "all you would have to do is this or that". Idk how your school does it but at my school, when someone is showing a move on you, you don't resist 100% and keep everything tight and you definitely don't counter what he's doing because there is a counter to everything.
    I'm somewhat splitting hairs, but saying that it is a way to kill the entire rubber guard is just not true. This is a great option to pass off of New Jersey, but if you start playing rubber guard from full guard and maintain good foot on the hip and knee squeeze or just double bag, or to put it another way, if you play the rubber guard as tightly as possible starting from full guard, it reduces the chances of ever getting put into New Jersey in the first place. If you properly play the rubber guard from full guard you're best option will hardly ever be to go through Jersey as a first choice.

    Now if you play rubber guard from butterfly or half guard with an overhook, you'll end up in New Jersey more often, but I've never been told its a place where you can just rest and hang out indefinitely like invisible collar. When you hit New Jersey from half guard, its time to floor it and start working your kung fu to carni, gogo, or try for a mono-roll. If you try and fight to get your stuffed knee out to get back into New York, at least in my experience, that is going to be a losing uphill battle the vast majority of time, and every second you spend in New Jersey not trying to hip out and kung fu to safety, is a second that he is closer to passing you. Of course, no one has ever said you can't go back to playing butterfly or try to restablish lockdown if you can trap the leg before you get knee slice'd.

    It is a great technique, against the one position of the rubber guard it applies best to, that leads to a scramble where you have a great chance of suprising the guy because if he doesn't know how to react in precisely the right way, you have the chance to take his back. But there are choices to be made in every scramble by both players, and there may very well be some excellent choices to be made by the other person as well. Counters for everything.

    Its awesome Garry is putting out videos on how to deal with the rubber guard, and I hope he puts out more videos like this because it is great to see the perspective of a high level non 10P competitor, it gives us fresh perspective. If we never look at things in new ways, nothing changes, nothing grows. Having said that, I would still say highest percentage rubber guard defense is going to come from the people who are having to deal with high level rubber guard offense everyday, day in and day out, and I don't know if anyone is coming at Garry Tonon with a rubber guard that has any heat to it.

  5. #25
    Tony "The Goods" Garcia's Avatar
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    I find it amusing that the majority of "This video is a joke" guys are ultra super high level white and blues. Just putting that out there :-).

  6. #26
    john harris & sons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericp View Post
    HAHA this thread is so awesome. 10th planet practitioners praise themselves on being so open minded. That is, unless of course someone makes anything anti-rubber guard or anti twister. Then it becomes very hostile and ridiculing of the person making the video. Gotta love it. Just saying
    Open minded is one thing. But with a title like"kill the Rubberguard" I expected to see FIRE!!! I didn't even see smoke

  7. #27
    john harris & sons's Avatar
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    If your idea of Rubberguard is New York. That's a small piece

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Clark View Post
    saying that it is a way to kill the entire rubber guard is just not true.
    Great post. Great point.

    Also, at the very beginning of the video he clearly states the he has no idea what it's called. That's a bad start. He basically admitting that he has little idea of what rubber guard as a system entails. So this means that he doesn't know what other problems will present themselves as he attempts the pass. That means he could be opening himself up to other attacks that he doesn't know about. The ony thing he addressed was a triangle threat. How can you kill what you don't understand?

    Kill is a bad choice of words. It should be re-labeled, high risk rubber guard pass attempt IMO. I'm sure it's a great pass, but it's by no means a way to kill the rubber guard as a whole.

    Like I said, I'll put more stock into it if he starts hitting it on high level rubber guard guys. Until then, I like his grappling style, but I'm not convinced.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony "The Goods" Garcia View Post
    I find it amusing that the majority of "This video is a joke" guys are ultra super high level white and blues. Just putting that out there :-).
    Bruh, who do you think browses the forum most? It shouldn't be amusing. It should be expected. That said, Zach is a killer and he's not convinced either.

    And if his "killer" was an homage to Bill Cooper's deep half killer, he better be able to come up with a full DVD's worth of rubber guard killing tech's after rolling with a high level RG guy. Bill Cooper came up with his deep half killer after hours and hours of rolling against Jeff Glover. He didn't just come up with a pass against a purple who occasionally plays deep half and say, "Eureka! I've killed the deep half!" Hahaha. So in essence, this high risk pass is a joke compared to Cooper's deep half killer. Can't call something a killer if it has the risk of getting you killed in the process.

    All that said, I still like Tonon and I hope this works. I'm always open to adding new things. I'm just not convinced. If you don't even "know what this is called" or "what the guy's doing here," how can you understand it well enough to defeat it?

  10. #30
    Tony "The Goods" Garcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Rosado View Post
    Bruh, who do you think browses the forum most? It shouldn't be amusing. It should be expected. That said, Zach is a killer and he's not convinced either.

    And if his "killer" was an homage to Bill Cooper's deep half killer, he better be able to come up with a full DVD's worth of rubber guard killing tech's after rolling with a high level RG guy. Bill Cooper came up with his deep half killer after hours and hours of rolling against Jeff Glover. He didn't just come up with a pass against a purple who occasionally plays deep half and say, "Eureka! I've killed the deep half!" Hahaha. So in essence, this high risk pass is a joke compared to Cooper's deep half killer. Can't call something a killer if it has the risk of getting you killed in the process.

    All that said, I still like Tonon and I hope this works. I'm always open to adding new things. I'm just not convinced. If you don't even "know what this is called" or "what the guy's doing here," how can you understand it well enough to defeat it?
    I see what you're saying but I'm also referring to the hundreds of posts on Facebook as well. All I'm saying is there's way too many white/blues who are gulping there own kool-aid.

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