Has he been sleeping through class?

[Bryan Gore]

The further MMA gets from Vale Tudo, the less important it becomes from a "how much should we care about how effective our martial art is in MMA" standpoint. It has lost some importance, but it's still important.

We definitely should be calling attention to how the rules are biased against BJJ and trying to change that, but it hasn't gotten so bad (yet) that I think we should just give up on doing well there and testing the art there.

[Jesse Bell]

Andre Galvao said MMA made him a better BJJ fighter. I have watched Ryan Halll, Murilo Santana, Braulio Estima etc... go to Firas for instruction. John Danaher,Fiiras' coach told me in an interview recently that there would be no BJJ if there was no MMA. MMA is why we do Jiu Jitsu.

I name drop these people because they know better than we do what the definitions of this art are. 10th Planet was founded on the basis of improving MMA Jiu Jitsu.

Stay humble friends..

[Jack Hanley]

I think it's about the frame. I'm more and more hating the subordination of jiu-jitsu to MMA, as if it is its little cousin, or the minor leagues. Is Firas complaining that Muay Thai fighters need to wear MMA gloves?? Personally, BJJ is all I need. Hell, the grand majority of us jiujiteiros will never get in the cage. What do we need MMA for? Self-defense? It has already been proven to the be most effective art for that. I have no interest in another combat sport, especially one that is dominated by one large corporation that favors 1) the standing game; 2) kick-punch; and 3) disproportionately weighs what happens on the ground less than what happens on the feet in terms of judging "dominance." Firas makes the assumption that BJJ is subordinate to MMA. It's not. It's its own thing. It's like a triathlete coach complaining that runners need to change their game for the triathlon. Let them do their triathlon all they want, and let the runners run. If triathletes want to run, let them, but don't start pissing on the other side. Jiu-jitsu does not belong to MMA. It's it's own thing. Most of us aren't getting in a cage. We don't need to change anything about our jiu-jitsu training. I train at American Top Team, one of the top MMA schools in the nation. There, you wanna do MMA? Cool. Do MMA. It's its own program. Jiu-jitsu becomes "jiu-jitsu for MMA class." Sure, take jiu-jitsu, but do jiu-jitsu. When you prep for a fight, you'll gear your training and set up camp for that, but we still wear a gi or our cool spats with no gloves to classes and when we go strke we wear 10-12oz gloves for Muay Thai. Again, is Firas complaining that Muay Thai fighters need to wear MMA gloves? Does Muay Thai need to change because it can be improved for MMA?

My two cents. Thanks for the reply, brother.

MMA under the modern unified rules is a screwed-up perversion of the original UFC events that turned a lot of us into grapplers in the 1990s.

So, I understand grapplers not wanting to conform their training to the needs of modern MMA.

But, if you replace "jiu-jitsu" with "kung fu" in the language quoted above, you get a lot of the same arguments the strip mall kung fu guys were making after the first few UFCs.

[Brandon Mccaghren]

As far as the idea of not using mma gloves to train your Muay Thai, I actually do believe we may start seeing a transition away from some of that traditional Thai training as MMA transitions more and more into its own individual martial art.

I'm of the mind that you should practice in what you play in. If you plan to fight under MMA rules, I think you wanna play wih the MMA gloves on as much as possible, even in your pure grappling drills and rolling. There's a TREMENDOUS difference in rolling with the gloves and without them.

[Eddie Bravo]

Combat Jiu Jitsu

[Aiseop]

Combat Jiu Jitsu

This. One of our affiliates used to run a combat Sambo program out in North Branford. Tried it a few time and it was awesome, but definitely not something that will sustain a gym on its own. Gonna have to add "aerobic kickboxing" classes to pay the rent.

[Aiseop]

MMA under the modern unified rules is a screwed-up perversion of the original UFC events that turned a lot of us into grapplers in the 1990s.

So, I understand grapplers not wanting to conform their training to the needs of modern MMA.

But, if you replace "jiu-jitsu" with "kung fu" in the language quoted above, you get a lot of the same arguments the strip mall kung fu guys were making after the first few UFCs.

But we are bound to history and the reality principle in our discourse. What I mean by this is that the 1993 revolution proved jiu-jitsu training does work. Precedence rejects the rehashing of that old argument for jiu-jitsu.

[Aiseop]

Hear hear. This is what Firas should have said (and probably meant).

Edit: reply to Brandon

[Frode Nilsen]

Damn, fell asleep after posting last night. Realize now that i may have interpreted the headline and the article a bit wrong, my thoughts last night was aimed at the evolution of jiu jitsu FOR MMA, not what's currently displayed IN MMA... And i agree about losing the GI and all that. And just to clarify; I respect wrestling, Tristar and Firas. Two of my teammates from Bergen Cagefighters have been to Tristar for fight camp. Hell, i started out my martial arts training with Greco when i was i kid. What i don't fully understand is why suddenly jiu jitsu is talked about like it's only good for getting up to the feet.. Especially from guys reppin 10P. Is not 10P geared towards handling the wrestler in MMA? Working from clinch, solving the math of the bad percentage we see with jiu jitsu in MMA? I've been in the cage, used it in the cage with success.. from my back.. even in MMA training i dont have a problem with being on my back, trusting the guard and the system. I'll rather eat an elbow and some punches to get what i want than to retreat. Not saying this to act like a hardass or a duchebag, and im not an world elite MMA fighter, but damn, Ben Saunders, Omoplata, where did it come from? Rubberguard set up. Really hope and belive we are going to see more of that in the years to come with the new generation jiu jitsu fighters in MMA. Peace out! PS: Combat Jiu Jitsu, fuck yea! 10P4L

[Ilja88]

Jiu-jitsu is not MMA. It is not supplementary to, complimentary of, or a subordinate of an entirely different combat sport, whose ruleset favors striking, while negating the ability of guard players to kick or do a 12-6 elbow or hell, headbutt (as an exaggeration). MMA is its own combat sport. Jiu-jitsu is also a combat sport, a martial art, and for many, a way of life. Jiu-jitsu does not need MMA. Let them adapt jiu-jitsu for MMA, but please don't come over to our side and tell us what's wrong with our house. We can take care of our own.

I saw what you wrote on Reddit and I agree with you. I'm training at 10p not because I want to do MMA, but because I love BJJ. It is it's own thing and it's older and arguably more evolved than MMA in terms of techniques.