Garry Tonon v Javi Vasquez - Gracie Nationals 2015

[Aiseop]

[David Rosado]

That was excellent. Non stop transitioning and attacking. Tonon is a monster.

[Craig Murray]

I recently read some threads on sherdog about how lockdown was 2005 JJ. It was nice to see Tonon employ the technique multiple times.

I'm still amazed by how much hate there is in the JJ community toward any techniques not actively being taught in a person's gym. So few teachers are open minded to things they themselves dont know.

I think that's the root of the "gi makes your nogi better"... if you spend 15 years learning how to "fight another guy for the covers", the idea that it's kind of silly and pointless, and slowly being phased out of top-level competition, must be terrifying.

When I hear Eddie talking about how he lets his students teach techniques that he himself has not mastered, about how important it is to him to bring in anything new that's being used and at least experiment with it to validate it's legitimacy, I get so happy. It gives me a warm feeling that at least somewhere, there is an organization embracing that kind of thinking.

[Mike Nall]

I think that's the root of the "gi makes your nogi better"... if you spend 15 years learning how to "fight another guy for the covers", the idea that it's kind of silly and pointless, and slowly being phased out of top-level competition, must be terrifying.

Fight another guy for the covers? Could you explain that? I've actually never heard that expression before. edit: I get it. Pajamas. Covers. Nice.

By the way, I hope I don't catch heat for this but I really think that these days people take the "gi makes your nogi better" and "nogi makes your gi better" comments out of context.

I don't know if you were saying this or not but in general, I don't think anyone is suggesting anymore than training gi in preparation for a nogi tournament makes you do better at that tournament, or that training nogi for a gi tournament will help you at the tournament itself.

I think when people say it, what they mean is that certain aspects of each can help someone become a better overall grappler. For example, finishing submissions in nogi usually requires some sharper technique than in the gi. On the other hand, defending submissions is generally more difficult in the gi, because in nogi you can slip out of things a bit easier. This is one example of how doing both can be beneficial.

That said, people should do what they enjoy, and what they like. I will say that there are no top level teams that encourage gi training before nogi competitions. During nogi season, all the top teams are having their competitors train without the gi for ADCC, Nogi worlds, Nogi pans, you name it.

I also love that Eddie lets people teach things that he hasn't mastered. Eddie is a true student of the game, and if there's something with value, no matter who it is, he's always going to want to learn it. it's definitely refreshing and very cool. Not everyobdy is like that.

[Craig Murray]

Fight another guy for the covers? Could you explain that? I've actually never heard that expression before. edit: I get it. Pajamas. Covers. Nice.

Yeah it's a joke from the greatest BJJ competitor of all time. His point is that two guys yanking on each other's gi's looks like two guys fighting for the covers in bed. I really only meant it as a joke:

http://youtu.be/HmEWuQ8raL4

I don't think anyone is suggesting anymore than training gi in preparation for a nogi tournament makes you do better at that tournament

There are for sure LOTS of guys who believe that if someone trains, say, 10 years in both gi and nogi, they will be better at nogi than someone who trains 10 in nogi (all other things being equal). I can point you to current sherdog threads about this, and I've even heard it in my own gym.

I think when people say it, what they mean is that certain aspects of each can help someone become a better overall grappler

I don't think anyone would argue with that. But I don't think that's what the "you must train gi to be better at nogi" guys are saying.

That said, people should do what they enjoy, and what they like.

I agree. I certainly wasn't implying that people should not train in a gi.
However I do hold the somewhat controversial opinion that if you want to compete at the highest levels exclusively in nogi, there is no reason to ever put on a gi.

[Eddie Bravo]

That match is what subonly is all about. Both competitors went after it and the audience loved it. Props to Javi for steppin up and to Garry for looking like an unstoppable beast

[Craig Murray]

That match is what subonly is all about. Both competitors went after it and the audience loved it.

You're right that we need this glammed up and under the bright lights! EBI FTW!

[Arman Fathi]

I like what the color commentator pointed out that Javi has entire systems set up around his escape. Something I played with this morning in positional sparring was from this match in mind. I tried to get the underhook while on bottom of side control and just have my arms constantly working to get into a headlock, since we drill the living piss out of having to escape those in our fundamentals class but not how to attack from there. One of our black belts will usually d'arce me if I go for that, and Clark Gracie once sat back into an omoplata by holding my underhooking elbow, but the efficiency battle is helping survival bit by bit.

[Spínola]

Great match. Congrats to both Garry Tonon and Javi Vasquez.

I wished more big names would support the Gracie Nationals and Gracie Worlds.