Blackbelts getting tapped

[Kurzy]

I think a lot of people who get into BJJ wil often focus on "getting the tap" so much that they actually count them for the first while. I know I was basically guilty of that when I first got into JJ. If I got a sub that night I would drive home smiling and wanting to celebrate in my head, etc. I would tell my wife how happy I was that I finally caught someone with a technique I had been working on, etc.
Now it is just part of the rolling. I sub guys that are higher and lower ranked then me, and guys that are higher and lower ranked than me will also sub me. No one is keeping track, no one is counting, and no one is in competition with each other at our school.
#jiujitsu

[jaywatkins67]

To the initial question, it doesn't matter. Crazy things happen in this sport and people get tapped out. Again, it doesn't matter. The way I look at it, both parties learn something everytime there is a submission. As far as black belts getting tapped by their students, Eddie says, if you aren't eventually getting tapped out by your students, you, either, aren't rolling enough with them or aren't teaching them anything. I'm not a black belt but I am an instructor and while it hurts my "alpha" male pride to get tapped out by one of my students, I also know it means I'm doing my job.

[Nate Jones]

The idea of letting someone tap me to make them better is silly. I don't train my students to be able to crack a white belt level defense, I train them to crack black belt level defense.

Also whats really ridiculous is the absurd idea that because someone doesn't get tapped out that often they must be holding back information from his/her students.

#WhiteBeltTheories

To piggy back off of what Coach Chris is saying I think his style of teaching especially with white belts is the best way to progress. Nothing should be given to you as a white belt. That's how you develop a false sense of security and think your better then you really are. As a white belt I remember Coach Chris would always have that crushing pressure but definitely was not using his full arsenal and would always start on his back. I would get submitted over 10 times in a 5 minute round, but that was the best learning experience ever. Trying to defend yourself from a BB BJJ instructor, then having him break down exactly what he was doing to get my response. As I started to progress he would open up the arsenal depending on how well I was rolling that day. To this day, I think I might have had him in side control for maybe a second, one time. But to be briefly in a offensive position against such a high level grappler like Coach Chris is a huge accomplishment. I think another thing to look at with this conversation is why are we focusing so much on tapping your BB instructor? I think being able to last for a 5 minute round not getting tapped or having a competitive round and getting tapped once or twice by your instructor is a bigger accomplishment.

[Arman Fathi]

No offense dude, but what you're describing sounds a lot like that Gracie "learn at home from Video" academy. The point of going to a class is to have training partners to roll with. Zog never has to hand out a pity tap once, but the students progress and experience learning (and applying) subs via rolling with their team mates.

What you're talking about is a BJJ career in private lessons only, and even in that case, I doubt any instructor is just going to hand out mercy taps unless it is obvious repping like what Zog talked about.

The Gracie 'learn at home from Video' example is spot on. To my understanding, celebrities that take regular private lessons but don't want to go to class due to fear of getting injured are still exposed to hand-picked training partners, even if they were coming in with the intention of only learning from the instructor. It's just the reality of training. You have to have different training partners to maximize your growth. The example in itself was a little unrealistic to begin with. OBVIOUSLY, an instructor would let a student tap them if they were drilling the technique. Obviously. When I'm drilling with a sparring partner, I let him do the move without resisting, then after a few reps I might defend 10%, then 15%, 20%, so on and so on, just to give him an obstacle or two that they need to deal with. The most important thing is that they have the principle ingrained in terms of what they need to be attacking. Every training session should be taken into perspective with the goal of what you're trying to accomplish. If we include drilling, then I got tapped 30 times yesterday alone. If we're only taking into account live rolls, I probably tapped once or twice yesterday to higher level guys. So my question is, do we "count" those 30 taps as taps? That would seem a little ridiculous to me. Do we count the one or two times I got tapped "for real"? You could argue that those were "legitimate", but then another favorite quote of mine comes to mind as a result: "Those who mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind." Think bigger picture. It's not always about 'tapping' the other guy.

[Slick Rick]

Just a general question here but if a black belt is legit rolling with his/her students (like they should be) how often are they actually getting tapped or at least put in serious trouble?

This may be an old thread by now, but I feel a black belt should be constantly getting put in serious trouble and even tapped, by his/her students. This keeps me humble by reasserting that I still have holes in my game, I still can improve on an escape, and I still can fine tune my overall game. It never stops, it just progresses.

The object of getting on the mat is learning to defend yourself in any situation and comfort zone.