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  1. #1
    Nick Paul's Avatar
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    honey hole figure four defense options

    Lately I've been getting obsessed with the honey hole, and having pretty decent success finishing with the inside heel hook and texas clover leaf. Naturally, my training partners have been getting keen to the defense and figure fouring their legs off of my entries. What do you guys do here? It's become stall city for me.

  2. #2
    DanConway's Avatar
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    Straight ankle lock the outside leg would probably be the most typical goto.

  3. #3

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    there are at least 8-10 submissions off of that position. even better if they cross their legs (the inside heal hook is actually my last option). It all starts with you getting a hold of the farside leg thats protecting the heal.

  4. #4

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    Grain of salt because I've only hit this on another white belt one time, but I got the idea from Vinny Magalhaes/Chris Herzog. It's kind of hard to explain, but basically control the top leg by the toes with your far hand, and base up so you can sit up into sort of a russian cowboy/capoeira cowboy position. Then you can toe hold that top leg. Or, they defend the toe hold and untangle their legs for you so you can snatch up the kneebar. But step one is just to sit yourself up into that russian cowboy position.

    Here's a video for reference. Skip to 1:29.




    The leg position is very similar to the honey hole. The main thing is that you have one leg between both of their legs. The main difference is where the hips are. In honey hole you're off to the side. In the capoeira cowboy your hips are on top. But the legs are pretty much in the same configuration. If I'm wrong to use this counter, let me know. But the actual attacks that Vinny shows here are very high percentage for me. Like stupid easy. So any time my leg is in between their legs and their legs are figure 4'd, I'm going for this.
    Last edited by David Rosado; 05-15-2015 at 09:17 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by David Rosado View Post
    Grain of salt because I've only hit this on another white belt one time, but I got the idea from Vinny Magalhaes/Chris Herzog. It's kind of hard to explain, but basically control the top leg by the toes with your far hand, and base up so you can sit up into sort of a russian cowboy/capoeira cowboy position. Then you can toe hold that top leg. Or, they defend the toe hold and untangle their legs for you so you can snatch up the kneebar. But step one is just to sit yourself up into that russian cowboy position.

    Here's a video for reference. Skip to 1:29.




    The leg position is very similar to the honey hole. The main thing is that you have one leg between both of their legs. The main difference is where the hips are. In honey hole you're off to the side. In the capoeira cowboy your hips are on top. But the legs are pretty much in the same configuration. If I'm wrong to use this counter, let me know. But the actual attacks that Vinny shows here are very high percentage for me. Like stupid easy. So any time my leg is in between their legs and their legs are figure 4'd, I'm going for this.
    He went over this at a seminar, Garry Tonon also showed something similar but falling to the opposite leg side. Back saddle variants.

    The best resource I have found on these positions was something Zog recommended years ago, Mastering the Saddle by Scott Sonnon.

  6. #6
    Brent Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hespectnogi View Post
    Lately I've been getting obsessed with the honey hole, and having pretty decent success finishing with the inside heel hook and texas clover leaf. Naturally, my training partners have been getting keen to the defense and figure fouring their legs off of my entries. What do you guys do here? It's become stall city for me.
    At the end of Zogs Cap Cowboy/quarter guard killer video he shows the Texas cloverleaf and the version Scott Yockel does from there. That's what I would do. So even if they triangle their legs, get into that deep honey hole stacking your feet (yockel) or foot on the hip (Zog)
    Last edited by Brent Smith; 05-17-2015 at 09:51 AM.
    #10thplanetFREAKS

  7. #7
    Vinny showed us a lot of good stuff on that trip I recommend watching the whole series. Used it quite a bit.
    Keep your stick on the ice TO THE 10TH POWER!!!

  8. #8
    Nick Paul's Avatar
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    What do you guys think of this? Found it poking around Reilly Bodycomb's youtube page.

  9. #9
    DanConway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hespectnogi View Post
    What do you guys think of this? Found it poking around Reilly Bodycomb's youtube page.
    It, as with pretty much all of reillys stuff is super legit ;D

  10. #10
    Brent Smith's Avatar
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    Absolutely legit
    #10thplanetFREAKS

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