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  1. #1

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    Spin Side Kick vs Spin Back Kick

    I am a 1990 U.S. Olympic Festival Silver medalist & 1990 U.S. Nationals Bronze medalist in TKD. I was trained by American TKD legend, two time Olympian (’88 & ’92) and former U.S. team head coach, Han Won Lee. I learned to wrestle from 1980 U.S. Olympic Team member James Bryant (the year we boycotted the games) and I am a purple belt in jiu jitsu under Eddie Bravo.

    I’ve heard Joe Rogan talk about how the Spinning Side Kick is superior to the ‘knee down’ back kick for years. After hearing him speak with Kirik about it on his podcast I felt like sharing some ideas about it.

    The spinning side kick that Joe talks about and impressively demonstrates in his Youtube videos is the older way of doing the kick. The ‘knee down’ way of doing the kick was the cutting edge way that the world class TKD athletes began to do the kick in the 1980’s. There are a few reasons for this.


    1. The ‘knee down’ kick is faster
    2. The ‘knee down’ kick is less telegraphed
    3. The ‘knee down’ kick is harder to counter
    4. The ‘knee down’ kick is more powerful


    The ‘knee down’ kick is faster because the path to the target is more direct if you don’t raise your knee and because the knee isn’t raised it is harder to see coming at you.

    In Olympic style TKD there is a concept of counter kicking which can be done at the same time a person is kicking called a Padachagi. A Padachagi is a round house kick which is done at the same time a person is kicking by switching your feet and sliding to the side. For example, if both people are standing in a conventional stance and fighter A throws an Axe kick with the back leg, it is possible for fighter B with the correct timing and distance control to throw a back leg roundhouse kick to the body while avoiding the axe kick to the head.

    This same Padachagi, with the correct timing and distance control can be used to counter the knee up spinning side kick. It requires a high level of skill to do but it can be done.

    It is true that you can develop a lot of power from the hip thrust in the knee up kick as Joe demonstrates in his videos but mechanically the ‘knee down’ kick is more powerful.

    I wouldn’t say the spinning side kick with the knee up was wrong or ineffective but there are reasons why Olympic level TKD athletes no longer kick that way.

  2. #2

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    Which kick is better for MMA?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amos View Post
    Which kick is better for MMA?
    As I said, I wouldn't say the older way is wrong of ineffective but it isn't as powerful or efficient at the 'knee down' kick can be. So I would say the 'knee down' kick can be more effective for MMA and is the reason why Jon Jones, Conor McGregor, Anthony Pettis etc... do the kick that way.

  4. #4
    Gary Meek's Avatar
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    While I agree that the spinning back kick is faster (partially due to the fact that less rotation of the body is required), the spinning side kick does have a lot more options than the back kick. The back kick is nearly limited to simply that; however, the spinning side kick causes you to rotate the body more, allowing for a last second change in technique (hook, turning (or roundhouse depending on your generation or style)), direction (higher or lower, opponent side steps left or right), or control (you're already rotated, allowing you to return to a better fighting stance more rapidly).

    The spinning back kick does have a little more power (can't really say a ton more, but it does have more) due to the speed increase in the lack of rotation, using more of your butt muscles, and the straight back motion as opposed to the rotating motion (think punching with your elbow already elevated vice low and protecting).

    I love both after doing TKD for more than 30yrs, but technically, our style of TKD (ITF) doesn't even have a spinning side kick, only the spinning back kick for the reason Jason mentioned. I always prefer the lead leg side kick to gut with a slide personally...less powerful, but sneakier and faster. Fun discussion, now back to Jiu Jitsu. LOL

  5. #5
    Chris Herzog's Avatar
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    Facts & Science? All I see is speculation and opinion.
    Check out my instructional website:www.zogipedia.com



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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Herzog View Post
    Facts & Science? All I see is speculation and opinion.
    It is the opinion of Olympic level TKD athletes. Like I said, I thought I would share some ideas about the kick that I haven't heard anyone in MMA talk about.

  7. #7
    Chris Herzog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Mallory View Post
    It is the opinion of Olympic level TKD athletes. Like I said, I thought I would share some ideas about the kick that I haven't heard anyone in MMA talk about.
    Opinions from athletes, Olympians or not, doesn't equal irrefutable evidence. Ability doesn't = knowledge. I've trained with, competed against, learned from, and taught Olympic athletes in Judo. The degree of understanding/knowledge athletes have varies greatly amongst them. They know what works well for them, that doesn't always equate to what works well for others.

    You posted a number of absolutes as fact based on opinions. The discussion itself is interesting, however without testing them in a controlled environment, none of statements you made are facts.
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  8. #8

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    Wouldn't mind seeing a video of the kick.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Herzog View Post
    Opinions from athletes, Olympians or not, doesn't equal irrefutable evidence. Ability doesn't = knowledge. I've trained with, competed against, learned from, and taught Olympic athletes in Judo. The degree of understanding/knowledge athletes have varies greatly amongst them. They know what works well for them, that doesn't always equate to what works well for others.

    You posted a number of absolutes as fact based on opinions. The discussion itself is interesting, however without testing them in a controlled environment, none of statements you made are facts.

    I posted some details about the kick based on observations and the experience of people at the highest level of the art.

    Testing in a controlled environment would not prove anything either way. For example, if we measure how hard a person can kick with the knee up verses the knee down he would probably kick harder with the knee up if he is more familiar with that way of kicking. Another person being tested could have the opposite results if they are more familiar with the knee down way of doing the kick.

    Testing and comparing two different people wouldn't prove anything either. There was a 'fight science' tv show, I don't remember what it was called but they compared a TKD guy, a Thai Boxer, a Capoeira dude and a Karate guy. They measured their kicking power and the order of power in the kicks was 1. Capoeira 2. TKD 3. Thai Boxer 4. Karate. It didn't prove anything because the people were all at different skill levels, ages, fitness levels etc... within their respective arts.

    You know as well as I do that there is a big difference in the level between Judo down at the YMCA and the guys training with Jimmy Pedro. The same thing is true for TKD. As I said before, I haven't really heard anyone explain these ideas outside of TKD before.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Roux View Post
    Wouldn't mind seeing a video of the kick.
    Here you go Dwight. The first KO on the video is a 'knee down' back kick to the head.


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