Dead Orchard Escape + Where Did I Screw Up?

[mountveggie]

There are a bunch of problems that can come up with this position and you have to learn to trouble shoot them all. I never want to "sell out" at any point because its supposed to be a control position. Shortly after this position got its name (I had already been using it for about 6.5 years at that time) someone informed me when I posted a video about that game that it was "Ludicrous" that someone could escape the newly named dead orchard, so my in depth trouble shooting tips were pointless. Without seeing exactly what you did, I can comment in much detail, but I'm guessing you might not have been crunched in close to him enough while finishing or let go of too much control. You said you learned it from Nathan. Like in person? If so you probably were taught some specific trouble shooting, if not, most people are trying to just slap a two arm triangle on and they wonder what happened when it messes up. And yeah, that will still work allot of the time, especially if your not super weak.

Yeah you're spot on! I gave up control by pulling on the arm and attempting to finish it similar to a regular armbar (i.e. by stretching myself out, trying to flop my opponent on his back, while having my own back to the mat, instead of keeping him on his knees and just shooting my hips up - dude was really strong and I felt I had to go for broke).

I'm kinda guessing that's probably what allowed him to get his feet across my chest - but since I don't have a video of it to analyse myself, I can only guess that's the reason?

And yeah, Nate swung by Singapore for a seminar and it was WICKED!! (Seriously, it felt like I finally learnt how to do an ankle lock - after over 3 years of jits) Dude was nice enough to show me the set up to the DO (even though it wasn't part of the seminar), and had me realise how I'd been messing up the entry all this while

[nathan orchard]

Yeah which is unfortunately what happened (side note: the dude actually used the exact same move to escape a triangle attempt earlier in our match).

While I can (sort of) accept it happening with a triangle attempt, I'm kinda bummed that this escape seems to work with the DO - and am hoping 10p warriors will have advice on keep the position in these situations (the DO is SUCH an awesome position, seems a waste not to finish it).

Nothing is %100. I wish I could see the match so I could give some better advice but more reps should get you sorted out. But make sure you have the triangle locked in completely before you try to move on. (:

[nathan orchard]

There are a bunch of problems that can come up with this position and you have to learn to trouble shoot them all. I never want to "sell out" at any point because its supposed to be a control position. Shortly after this position got its name (I had already been using it for about 6.5 years at that time) someone informed me when I posted a video about that game that it was "Ludicrous" that someone could escape the newly named dead orchard, so my in depth trouble shooting tips were pointless. Without seeing exactly what you did, I can comment in much detail, but I'm guessing you might not have been crunched in close to him enough while finishing or let go of too much control. You said you learned it from Nathan. Like in person? If so you probably were taught some specific trouble shooting, if not, most people are trying to just slap a two arm triangle on and they wonder what happened when it messes up. And yeah, that will still work allot of the time, especially if your not super weak.

Brian what year did you start doing Jiu Jitsu?

[Jeff Baldwin]

Nate, I have a question.

Can you post a video doing it on a thicker guy where it's challenging for you to lock the position?

I'd like to see how you prep the position to easiest lock up the triangle.

[Brian Debes]

Out of curiosity what did you call it before it was named "Dead Orchard"?

I called it the double arm triangle because that was what the official 10th planet video on 10th Planet watch at the time said. Yeah, not vary cool name but whatever, here is the vid.

Brian what year did you start doing Jiu Jitsu?

2007. I was a huge 10th planet fan less than a month in and was working rubberguard pretty early on (or trying). I would stumble into it off of invisible collar originally, just because my legs were pretty long. Later on, I saw Sean Bollinger showing the move and that kind of stewed in my brain for a while and eventually probably helped in the manifestation of it more into my game. Also I really, really want to say I saw Denny do it a long time ago but cannot find any evidence of this and allot of things have been seen since, so I might be mistaken. This was the second sub (and thing in general other than basic movement) for me to try to work into my game after a standard triangle. I started hitting this before basic path and oma plata’s and gogo’s for sure.
I was not trying to bring you down Nathen, I know you have been training longer than that and probably been playing with this move forever also, I was just saying I have been doing it a long time. LONG TIME, but not as long as some of the 10p OG’s.

[Arman Fathi]

I have personally felt the wrath of Prof. Nathan's namesake submission from the man himself. I recall him saying in a previous post that only two dudes had ever escaped his dead orchard. Spoiler alert: I was not one of them.

[mountveggie]

Found the vid guys!! Apparently a teammate had recorded some of the matches, including this one.

And apparently that perfect DO set up I thought I had.... actually really, REALLY sucked.

Updating the first post to include the vid. Appreciate any and all advice guys, thanks again!

[mountveggie]

On a side note, anyone knows what I did wrong with the triangle-to-armbar attempt at 3:55?
(I was fully stretched out, but didn't have the leverage to hyper-extend the arm or cause the dude any trouble)

[Mojoplata]

I called it the double arm triangle because that was what the official 10th planet video on 10th Planet watch at the time said. Yeah, not vary cool name but whatever, here is the vid.

I think it's crazy that Elvis Sinosic got the DO in the ufc way before it got a name, but it didn't (really) catch on until Nathan named it.

[Kurzy]

10th Planet renames almost all moves. Why would the "Both arms in triangle" be any different?