Interactive Rubber Guard Flowchart/10P Ronins/Future 10P Düsseldorf

[Ben Eddy]

Cool.

With all the arms starting out as expanded, the chart is a bit intimidating and tough to follow.

If it's possible to work with a mindmap program that can expand each section once clicked, that would make this a lot simpler to follow and see the basic flow from a first glance. So for example just showing all the control positions. Then if someone wants to look closer into a certain position, they can click it and it would expand.

[Jonas Schäfer]

Cool.

With all the arms starting out as expanded, the chart is a bit intimidating and tough to follow.

If it's possible to work with a mindmap program that can expand each section once clicked, that would make this a lot simpler to follow and see the basic flow from a first glance. So for example just showing all the control positions. Then if someone wants to look closer into a certain position, they can click it and it would expand.

I have been thinking about that as well, but the program I'm currently using doesn't allow for collapsing/expanding sections.
I've also not found any software doing so properly for trees with multiple interconnections and not only simple parent child relationship type progressions.


If anybody here knows a program that is capable of that and furthermore is free or cheap, idealy allowing for easy sharing as well as adding tooltips and links please give me a hint.

Ideas i have for simplifying the current flowchart are making a toned down version, only featuring the most important/simpler positions transitions and submissions or breaking it down into multiple flowcharts, basically artificially adding a collapse/expand function though that would be a lot of work i think.
Another thing that might help is creating some sort of mini wiki for the techniques but that's a bit more work intensive and not something I'll be doing till the flowchart itself is done.

If you have any other suggestions please do post them.

[Cecil Cheng]

Hi,

About my BJJ background:
I used to train in Marin County near San Francisco and had some exposure to rubber guard 10 years ago. I used it quite extensively as i had very flexible and strong legs relative to my upper body. Now looking into training again, i rolled a few times at different gyms and was trying to organize in my head my limited rubber guard techniques. Your flow chart is exactly what I was looking to create.

About how I can help:
I work in quantitative trading and am used to managing and exploring complex data. With any application/analysis tool, the key is to use technologies that keep development efforts low relative to the use-cases of the data. I was looking to implement privately for myself what you had done using Neo4J, a graph database. It would allow doing exactly the analysis and dynamic sub flow chart representation as suggested by the other forum members.

A graph database represents every datapoint as either a node or an edge (a line between nodes). Each control position can be represented as a node and each transition as an edge. Each node and edge can have properties and labels associated with it, that make it easy for filtering and exploration. "Paths" between control positions several steps apart can be queried easily, say, starting at guard, show me all the ways to get to jiu claw (which involves transversing several control positions to get there). Alternatively, nodes can be filtered by labels, such as "essential" to "Advanced" to show simplified graphs. Properties on each node or graph can contain text, links to videos etc.

I was going to do this anyways, so if you're interested we could collaborate.

[Anton Krischer]

Hey Cecil,
that sounds really awesome! Jonas was thinking of using flash to create a collapsing and expanding chart( like master Ben Eddy suggested), but we learned that the flash support by firefox and some other browsers will be shut down in the near future. The software you are using seems to be a really nice tool to create the type of flowchart we all are searching for
I will tell Jonas that you are interested to collaborate. He is more into the software and data stuff so you both can discuss what will be neccessary to create the chart with Neo4J.
Thanks for you support Cecil!

Best regards from Germany, Anton

[Jonas Schäfer]

Hey,

sorry for taking so long to reply, of course we're interested in collaborating.
I took a look at Neo4j and from what I've seen it's pretty much exactly what i had in mind when asking for other software solutions (although I don't have a clue on how to work with it for now lol). Especially the option for filtering on top of the dynamic nature is amazing. One thing i'm concerned about though is whether you have the possibility to export charts so that one can view them simply using his browser (best case even on mobile?), because otherwise it doesn't really make sense to use such a powerful tool in the first place when the goal is public availability.
I also thought about just creating a shitload of different charts with the service i was already using and connecting them via hyperlinks, but I gotta admit the sheer amount of time needed for that kept me away from it for now.

[Cecil Cheng]

They key is to represent the flow chart as a "graph". This can be done using traditional databases or data structures, but as you can see, the work required is significant. A flow chart is intrinsically a graph, and using a technology that closely mirrors the data model makes the work easier.
It's not that "powerful", just a different perspective on the traditional database model, which happens to work for this use case.

If you are familiar with the Panama papers, they used Linkurios for visualization and reporting, with Neo4J as a back-end to represent the data. A similar model would work.

Exporting permutations of the graph would be fairly trivial as well.

I'm going to map a basic rubber guard workflow so I can show you something.

[Eddie Bravo]

You forgot muddy waters! :-)

[Anton Krischer]

Hey Eddie,
I just saw your Instagram post, we are super honored that you shared the flowchart.

You forgot muddy waters! :-)

Muddy Waters is in the flowchart, look at the left bottom, right between Invisible Collar and the Dead Orchard
If you see any other mistakes let us know
We are looking forward to work with Cecil and Improve the flowchart so it isn't so overhelming anymore

Best Regards,
Anton

[Jonas Schäfer]

@ Cecil
Oh man, I've only been at university for a few weeks now and I already have had my fair share of things being called trivial that none really knew how to do haha.
Jokes aside I'm glad that's not gonna be a problem. I'd love to see an example of how it might work out if you're already creating a basic flowchart.
I'll also have quite a bit of time on my hands the next few months as I just got my meniscus patched up, so no training for me.
I'll have a look into the basics of how to work with Neo4J though I don't know how you plan on splitting up the work required for making the final flowchart. I'd suggest using a more direct form of messaging (fb?) if we were to really get started.


@ Eddie
Muddy Waters is definitely in there, it may be lacking a few transitions and submissions but it's there nonetheless (just don't start looking for anything Jersey related yet^^).

[Anton Krischer]

Hey guys, i would liek to revive this thread and give you an update. Jonas added a basic version of the Flowchart to
https://rubberguardflowchart.neocities.org/
so it is also usefull for beginners and not so overwhelming, like Ben said.

Unfortunately it would be very much work to create a flowchart with Neo4J as Cecil suggested. Please let us know what you guys think and also contact us if you have any idea to improve the flowchart.
Also Jonas experiences relatively high traffic on the side. Maybe it has to do with me showing it to 10P West LA and Ralf Warneking or some kind of bot is visiting the site.
Cheers!