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  1. #1

    EBI 10 - Questions

    Congrats to Geo on an awesome night of matches. I definitely look forward to seeing him compete again. Awesome night of matches all around.

    With that being said EBI 10 has left me with some questions on the OT rules if anyone can help me out.

    1) How is it determined who gets to pick position first in OT? This is something I never understood during all EBI's, to me it was very confusing to see Eddie Cummings, go from an offensive position to a defensive one.

    2) I understand that if you change position without attempting a submission, the round ends.. But I was also under the impression, that if you transferred to another submission attempt, you kept going. So why did this match end when it did? Geo was almost escaped and Eddie Cummings transfered to a leg lock attempt, but let go because the match was ended.. When does the "transferring to another position, as long as you have a submission attempt" rule end?

  2. #2

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    The guy on offense gets to pick

    Eddie was attempting a leg entanglement, not a submission.

  3. #3

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    It's a coinflip on who gets to choose if he wants offense or defense first.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Murray View Post
    The guy on offense gets to pick

    Eddie was attempting a leg entanglement, not a submission.
    Most limb submission attempts involves some kind of entanglement, if he transfers to spiderweb, thats not instantly an armbar, it involves an arm entanglement.. With Eddie Cummings doing that leg entanglement, as deep as it was it probably would have led into a submission attempt at least.
    Last edited by Keith D; 12-04-2016 at 09:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JorgenBore View Post
    It's a coinflip on who gets to choose if he wants offense or defense first.
    Oh OK, thank you, that makes more sense now.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith D View Post
    Any submission attempt involves some kind of entanglement, if he transfers to spiderweb, thats not instantly an armbar, it involves an arm entanglement.. With Eddie Cummings doing that leg entanglement, as deep as it was it probably would have led into a submission attempt at least.
    Eddie lost Geo completely and then jumped on his legs. That's not a transition from one dead zone to another.

    I guess saying "submission attempt" was incorrect on my part. You are required to stay in a dead zone or the OT round is over.
    Last edited by Craig Murray; 12-04-2016 at 09:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Chris Herzog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith D View Post
    Most limb submission attempts involves some kind of entanglement, if he transfers to spiderweb, thats not instantly an armbar, it involves an arm entanglement.. With Eddie Cummings doing that leg entanglement, as deep as it was it probably would have led into a submission attempt at least.
    It wasn't an entanglement that leads to an immediate submission threat, like ashi or knee knot.
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  8. #8

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    I actually randomly thought about your point today, the idea that Cummings was transitioning to a leg submission (mind you, before I read this). I understand the argument. I know that the crucifix transition or spider web from the back would qualify as a continuation, who's to say with the level Cummings is at that game there couldn't be another commonly accepted transition added to the list? He's obviously dangerous from there, enough so to warrant most entanglements 'an immediate threat.' Certainly Geo's upper body was out, and the refs arms were waving the match off once it was. Cummings mighta had something, but losing the back control was such a momentum turner. Maybe an area to think about, I'm 80-20 that nothing changes.
    Last edited by Arman Fathi; 12-04-2016 at 07:36 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Arman Fathi View Post
    I actually randomly thought about your point today, the idea that Cummings was transitioning to a leg submission (mind you, before I read this). I understand the argument. I know that the crucifix transition or spider web from the back would qualify as a continuation, who's to say with the level Cummings is at that game there couldn't be another commonly accepted transition added to the list? He's obviously dangerous from there, enough so to warrant most entanglements 'an immediate threat.' Certainly Geo's upper body was out, and the refs arms were waving the match off once it was. Cummings mighta had something, but losing the back control was such a momentum turner. Maybe an area to think about, I'm 80-20 that nothing changes.

    I couldn't agree more, I don't think there is a very clear standard for what constitutes the match continuing. Even as you say the crucifix, if you transfer from the back to the crucifix, the opponent is in no immediate threat either, yet the match will continue, so I guess I really don't understand the logic of the match ending because "he transferred to a leg entanglement that wasn't an immediate threat.", Eddie Cummings getting into that leg entanglement position, is more of a threat than most people getting into the crucifix. I might like to see escaping to a controlled position, implemented in the future.
    Last edited by Keith D; 12-06-2016 at 11:13 AM.

  10. #10
    Martin Harris's Avatar
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    This is why Geo won, I don't see the confusion.

    *Edit - this is immediately after Geo pulled his arm free and before Eddie entangled the legs.
    Last edited by Martin Harris; 12-06-2016 at 03:51 PM.

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