Starting to take this wrestling vs jiu jitsu personal

[Joe O'Laughlin]

wrestlers seem to carry themselves alittle more cocky then jj pract. especially ones that might have won state in h.s or so on . Seems they make great sparring partners though they dont mind gettting beat on and they usually have ok cardio till you choke them out 20 times ..

[Ronnie]

ok this is my 1st post on this forum, my idea is simple but profound. If u get offended by what ryan bader said or when wrestlers beat bjj guys then u need to reconsider who is in control of ur emotions. ur ego is trembling with fear and anger,because bader is challenging ur identity. what if hes right? what if a good wrestler can render ur jiujitsu useless?? and u r powerless to stop these "non believers" from the other tribe? this my friend is not mental n emotional maturity. what is ur aim in training bjj to dominate peeps on the mat or to dominate ur ego. endless quest they are both yet one is dominated by ur ego thus enslaving u with the illusion of perfection. perfection is a fools dream!! the other quest is more liberating and resonates deep within what makes you,you! im no buddhist monk i do not believe in living without ego. ur ego is what makes u unique. nevertheless ur wisdom mind should be controling ur emotions not ur ego. in other words who gives a FUCK!!! if Bader thinks that shit!!! how does that effect ur life what so ever ??? just take a deep breath and blow that shit off!! and btw if what i said offened u than im right!! i mean come on, i dont even know who the fuck u are!!! LOL lets just train n be merry Horwich style!!!!

[Daniel Valdez]

You speak of my ego like its an existence. Did my ego make me angry, no
does showing displeasure towards a way of thinking define me as "trembling with fear"....thats stupid
am out of control of my emotions due to a statement by a wrestler....I haven't shot up a post office...yet
how does his statement a challenge of my identity? thats to deep buddy, your trying to swim in knee high water.

It hasn't to do with "A" good wrestler rendering my jiu jitsu (besides it's been done already), your thinking on a micro level, I am making macro statements.
Enough of the ego stuff, letgo of my ego.

I was more trying to stir up discussion about wrestlers vs jiu jitsu players. Specifically, I think bader is an idiot, but it wasn't him that "offended" me. It is the statement that is starting to become true that is offending me.
Ryan Bader - "I Believe My Wrestling Can Neutralize His Jiu Jitsu"
I think this statement is starting to become true because jiu jitsu players don't take it personal that a wrestler is only going to try and neutralize you. He is only going to try and grind out wins, win on take downs and worse off, defend from the top and win for his position. Jiu jitsu players and especially us fighters need to specifically train for strong wrestlers that want to grind wins.

Thanks busting your posting cherry on my post Ronnie, but a few less hits of the bong and it you could have saved me from the hippie Dr. Phil analysis.

[Dawood]

To be honest I do not see what was wrong with what Ryan Bader said. He simply believes in his own skills to be able to neutralize his opponent's jiujitsu. He never bashes jiujitsu or says wrestling is better. Ryan just is better at wrestling than jiujitsu and if you are good at something then why stray from it? He is there to win a match and if his top control is good enough to halt his opponent from advancing then more power to him. He doesn't have to go into the ring and try to go position-for-position, sub-for-sub with his opponent. He is not trying to beat his opponent at grappling. He is just trying to not get into a sticky situation.

The TS's statements came across more along the lines of "wrestling vs jiujitsu" with the whole jiujitsu player with wrestling/wrestler with jiujitsu nonsense. Do not take it personal if jiujitsu players get beat by wrestlers. Do not be upset if wrestlers get beat by jiujitsu players. Neither player is a total and complete representation of their sport so do not make it a style vs style matchup.

[Kendra Pegau]

I am with Daniel on this one. I am a jiu jitsu player with wrestling.

[Dima]

Just saying lol, they did this with the old UFC on tape to not be disputed much at all. With the rules only prohibiting eye gouging and biting( we saw some straight forward ball punching from sidecontrol lol, and of course the famous hair pulling by Royce on Kimo) the representatives of their fighting styles, the "Masters" that fought in that wide open space in the cage were given equal opportunity to show their martial arts' real life fighting effectiveness. Until folks actually started learning at least some Jiu Jitsu, almost every representative of their arts got owned by the Jiu Jitsu guys and thats a fact that was on tape as ive said earlier. So basically with no rules, no time limits, a practitioner that was purely a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu master beat a fighter who was purely a wrestling or a Tae Kwon Do master approximately 9 times out of 10 one on one. If you could train in only a single martial art as everybody else( of course thats not the case now, and training to be a complete fighter is the ultimate and wisest decision IF you want to kick everybody's ass) Brazilian Jiu Jitsu would HAVE to be your choice in order to dominate all else being the most efficient pound per pound martial art that would take the least time and effort to get to efficient in combat. I think that the argument of a single martial art being "the best" is rather pointless and ignorant and as the reincarnation of the Buddhist Zen master Tamo, Ronnie said has childish ego at it's root, however ladies and gentlemen, you have to give that respect, at least i feel like it, to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu... just sayin'

[AJ Camacho]

Remember though, it took Royce Gracie 15 minutes and 49 seconds to submit Dan Severn. In a normal non title MMA fight that would have been a loss for Royce. That wasn't just an MMA wrestler versus a MMA jiujitsu fighter either. That was a naive, ignorant of BJJ Dan Severn that nullified everything Royce had for 15 minutes. All with posture, power, and hip pressure and pure lay and pray wrestling.

I love BJJ but I definitely respect and appreciate wrestling.

[Michael Le]

First post! It is bothersome to see wrestlers winning decisions especially with grinding tactics. Is it because BJJ is just naturally inferior to wrestling? I don't think so. The UFC draws from a very rich wrestling talent pool. You're starting to see more all americans, NCAA champs, and now former olympic wrestlers. As far as I know of, we don't have too many ADCC champs actively training for MMA, but the two that come to mind; Jacare and Maia, it really doesn't matter if you take them down or not. In fact, most guys who fight them are probably trying to avoid the ground COMPLETELY. If great mma fighters had Marcelo Garcia's skills, we'd be seeing guillotine chokes everywhere against these wrestlers. So like the TS said, its only a matter of being able to elevate our game in order to counter wrestlers. BTW I'm BJJ with NO wrestling, I'm uncomfortable shooting for takedowns so I usually pull guard, I'll eventually break out of my comfort zone.

[Freddy Chavez]

Good Point AJ. But Royce vs Dan was the finals so I think by today's rules that would have been a 25 minute championship fight.

[AJ Camacho]

Good Point AJ. But Royce vs Dan was the finals so I think by today's rules that would have been a 25 minute championship fight.

That's a good point. There just seems to be a general notion that wrestling skills alone don't stand a chance against top level BJJ players. I think that contemptuous view of wrestling is a disservice to grappling and it just soothes the ego of the BJJ player who doesn't want to learn wrestling. In truth, wrestling does very well against BJJ (15 minutes apparently) and it has a level of technical skill that all grapplers can benefit from.

Don't hate it, just learn it.