Joe Rogan's "You're a Fucking Human Being"

[tiki]

@Tim: Joe's statement is flawed in two important ways. The first is what I call recursive application. Apply the mindset to itself and look for areas where it seems to contradict itself. To give you an example, if I come to you and say "Don't talk. No one should ever talk" you could easily laugh me off. I'm not obeying my own rule. If I can't obey it, why should you?

The core idea here seems to be Reason. Be reasonable. So in the spirit of his assertion, lets analyze his assertion reasonably.

1) He's telling you not to follow a road and giving you a system of beliefs that represents a road. He doesn't want you to attach to an ideology, but he's feeding you one. Be cool to people. Do what you want to do. Eat healthy, do something that allows you to enjoy your body. If I'm going to do what I want, why do I need a life coach? Who has trouble doing what they want? Nobody. They just make stupid decisions. How do you know the decisions are stupid? Ultimately, they make them unhappy. But if you obey the system presented here, you shouldn't care.
2) He's telling you to be cool to people but he just got done calling my people blind and stupid and suggesting that some of us are icy manipulators.
3) He's subtly suggesting that you should follow reason but he's not seeing that reason got me where I am. Therefore if you swallow his assertion hook line and sinker that religions are founded on 'unreason' without thinking it through, you're violating the entire premise of the system.

The second is more philosophical. The entire argument has a basis in morality or it wouldn't be important. That entire 5 minute clip is a moral argument. He cites a couple great examples, both of which are chilling to me. So chilling, I don't want to repeat them. They make me angry. They are intended to.

Those examples, what those people are doing is wrong ya know? But we have no moral common ground (Joe and I) that is based in reason. The whole system is rooted in an evolutionary mindset which must acknowledge that morality is a series of chemical reactions in your brain which can either be obeyed or not. You get a choice. And nothing happens to you if you choose the wrong path, there is no vengeful god watching you and choosing to punish you. There are presumably a lot of happy dictators in various countries around the world who are obeying the core philosophy here rather well.

I don't want to bore you but that fact must permeate your viewpoint if you're going to be consistent. If you have freedom to live the way you want to, so do I. Which means I don't care if you're not cool if we expand. I'm not asking permission. Traditional BJJ isn't cool if 10th Planet expands. 10th Planet isn't asking permission. 10th planet doesn't care if you don't like it. Whatever belief set we're talking about isn't cool with any religion expanding. We aren't asking. And we're a bit confused about why you care.

I think we can all agree with "be cool to people, eat right, exercise, don't brainwash people." That's pretty basic.

I'm taking a good look at what AJ said, I think this is a sharp point and I want to check it.

[Joshua Jarboe]

The problem I have with Religion is that the people are so selfish. Most of my friends are Christian (As are most Southeastern US people) and thats not a problem but they tend to every now and then try their preaching stories. Why would I believe the Christians and not some other Religion? Why not Islam? Why not Mormonism? Why not eastern Religions? What makes Christianity so special that my friends are right and everybody else in the world is wrong? Not only that the people inside Christianity can't even agree on the correct doctrine. Thats why there is so many denominations. Its selfish of my friends to say the Baptist way is the Correct way or the Methodist way or Church of Christ way. Once maybe they figure it out amongst themselves I'll take it more serious but for now I'm just gonna treat all Religion as the same.

Lets cut finely here. IMO, It's not selfish to believe in gravity. It's not selfish to believe that nuclear materials decay at a constant rate as has been the dominant scientific consensus until recently (when a solar flare was strongly correlated with an observed drop in nuclear decay). It's not selfish to believe that 10th planet jj is a new, viable tradition, and it's not selfish to be a Gi JJ guy like Renato. It's not selfish to disagree on a subject like predestination. We disagree. If we disagree and can have a good discussion about it, that's beautiful. That kind of discussion can be vibrant I think.

[Brandon Mccaghren]

If we disagree and can have a good discussion about it, that's beautiful. That kind of discussion can be vibrant I think.

word

[Aab]

@ Joshua Yea but its different when we are talking about Religion because people take it to serious. This is the thing that wars are fought over. If you disagree on Gravity well then I would call that person retarded. When the disagreement is the subject of afterlife, God, and creation people get a little more angry than if you disagree with the guard game I play my friend.

[Joshua Jarboe]

Yeah. You won't see my people fighting holy wars, it's not the way. The Crusades? That was some other religion's series of Stupid Mistakes. Nine crusades? Plus a few other miscellanious humilitating failures? Really? You couldn't figure out after the first three failed that this wasn't going well? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

I mean they butchered Orthodox folks in Byzantium. This has to be one of the great tragedies in history. If you can find orders telling us to go butcher people that disagree with us in our book, I'll give you a cheeseburger.

(I have cheeseburgers on the brain after looking at a different thread..and now i'm hungry.)

[AJ Camacho]

Religions are inherently exclusive. It's sort of the cause of all the problems. And if a church says that they are not exclusive but are inclusive, what they mean is, "We are willing to include you if you believe what we do or are willing to let us try to convert you."

The common retort here is that atheism is equally exclusive since it refuses belief in all gods. Well, atheism isn't a belief, organization or institution so it has nothing to exclude anybody from. It's like me calling you an "anti-unicornist". You definitely are but that doesn't mean that you expound anti-unicorn beliefs or that you exclude yourself from the company of those who believe in unicorns. The Unicornist's however, they exist and they are a rather exclusive bunch.

(My statement was too generalized, there are some religions that espouse a belief of the universe where the universe is indifferent to your existence or your willingness to believe/not believe.)

[Aab]

I guess the Crusades were Christians time of extremist sort of like the Islamic extremist of today. When you believe in something to that degree it becomes very dangerous.

[Bill Keeling]

"If someone has a good attitude and is trying to do what they think is the right thing, what else can you ask from a person?"

Well said.

This should be the worlds life mantra! I know God exists, yet I don't push my beliefs on anyone else or hold anything against them for theirs. Unless their beliefs are to hurt innocent people/animals/life in general. Then I feel sorry for them, because they are hurt and lost. When we or our family are hurt, we want revenge or to get even. We want to hurt those that hurt us. But when we often misdirect that anger on an innocent, then we have become the villain that deserves retribution... This has been an ongoing cycle for centuries. Easy to see, but hard to fix. It boils festers to a point of CHAOS! Well, evil loves chaos, for it provides distraction that hinders progression. That is the ultimate goal of every Human on this planet, to progress and evolve. But sadly, so few of us are able to focus through the fog.....

[Aab]

Atheism relies more on science and evidence rather than believing in some book that was written out of man's misunderstanding of the events happening around him. For the longest man believed the earth was flat. Science helps us understand things as such so we won't be ignorant like these people. A lot of Science is theory but it still beats making up a different god for the moon, sun, stars, animal crackers etc etc etc. But people are allowed to believe what they want. Thats cool as long as you don't take it to the crazy degree.

[Taylor Culbertson]

Joe is cerebral as fuck, but also hypercritical as fuck. I agree 100% that no one can know anything, so why does he bash on one group of dummies that think they know, but leaves the other equally dumb group alone?