"Military" systems vs MMA?

[Louis Ho]

Hey guys. I've been having a debate on Facebook over military systems such as Krav Maga vs MMA style training (Jiu Jitsu/wrestling/Muay Thai/boxing). What I hear a lot is along the lines that "In Krav Maga, they train to kill. But, MMA guys just train in a sport. In the streets and the battlefield, there are no rules, referees, time limits. So, the Krav Maga guy destroys the MMA guy."

Bullshit. Unarmed hand to hand combat between 2 combatants of equal experience, even with NO rules, I say the MMA fighter destroys the Krav Maga trained soldier. What do you guys think?

[bobby rivers]

I can groin strike, headbutt, and eye gaulge with the best of them. Why do they think we will still fight under rules if there are none?

[AJ Camacho]

There are basic positional principles that are essential to fighting (both standing and on the ground) that are not properly explored and exploited in some martial arts. I'm not that familiar with Krav Maga (beyond was I saw on Fight Quest) so I won't comment on it however, MMA training is very affective at collecting those basic fighting principles into one cohesive system. The addition of "illegal" strikes or attacks are only that much more deadly in the hands of an MMA fighter since none of that stuff trumps the fundamental logic of positional advantages.

[Louis Ho]

You got it, AJ. Couldn't have said it better. If you watch on Youtube, the Jason Chambers Human Weapon episode on Krav Maga, they give you a pretty good inside look at what they do. It really isn't anything impressive.

Besides, military guys have to know how to operate firearms, operate various machinery/vehicles, survive in the wilderness, scale walls, parachute, first aid, communications, etc. MMA guys just fight, that's it. There's just too much that military guys have to learn. They simply don't have the time to really train their fighting skills.

[Griffin Lambert]

There are effective techniques with in each system but often it has a lot more to do with the fighters themselves. Obviously a system designed to kill your opponent or seriously injure him would have an advantage over any fighting thats adapted to to sports rules. The mentality of a military style would give it an advantage as well. In mma you don't have to worry about dying. In any military combat situation death would be a possibility and I think that mind set would be a game changer. Try not to think about style vs style. There are great techniques in many systems but it doesn't make one better than the other. It's all fighting.

[leach_jeffrey]

That is a tough question with no true answer, but I'll try to get as close a possible.

First, I should say that in Krav Maga, they are not trained to kill. Actually, they are taught to repel the attacker to find an opportunity to escape. Anyone telling you that Krav Maga trains you to kill either doesn't take Krav Maga, so is just talking non-sense.

Also, you are saying that you want to know the outcome of a real life fight, but you are making up rules here (1 on 1, no weapons), so you are creating kind of a sport in this scenario.

With that being said, there are no absolutes here. In some cases, the Krav Maga guys will win and in some, the MMA guy will win. A lot of it comes down to who is tougher and has more of a killer instinct. If you start rolling around with a guy that is willing to bite chunks of skin off your face and stick his fingers knuckle deep in your eyes, you aren't going to have a very good jiu-jitsu game against him.

But I'll imagine that I'm trying to build the perfect fighter for the common scenario of a guy that goes into bars and acts like an ass and gets into typical bar fights. For that guy, I would suggest to him that he should try to keep fights on the feet. Going to the ground is a very bad idea if there are multiple opponents and if the attacker has a weapon, also, choking people is not a good idea if you want to stay out of jail. They'd also be most prepared if they knew how to get up if someone tried to take them down, so I'd say, the optimal guy would be a boxer, with some wrestling experience.

[Enrique "Kiko"]

All things being equal, the MMA guy > Krav guy in unarmed combat. Not because Krav isn't good, it's just that MMA guys train 100% of their time in unarmed, Krav guys do a TON of weapons work so they simply won't have the same amount of training in unarmed. Of course on the battlefield, an MMA guy with a rifle/knife vs a Krav guy with rifle/knife, Krav guy wins hands down 9/10 times. I don't plan on being in the battlefield much, unless we get hit by zombie apocalypse, which I'll switch almost all of my martial art training time to Dog Brother's type Kali and Lameco for knifes and of course Dog Brother's CQC with knife/gun.

[Matt "Gumby" Glach]

To me it seems like Krav is more effective against a random attacker who isn't expecting you to know what you're doing, but if we're talking a Krav guy squaring off with an MMA guy and engaging in a planned fight, I'd give the edge to the MMA guy. What does the Krav guy do when he gets double legged and put on his back? I'm not a Krav expert by any means, I've taken 1 class in it at my old gym, and I know there are Krav ground techniques, but let's get real, an experienced MMA fighter knows how to wrestle, grapple, AND strike, and they are more experienced in the common positions that you will most likely end up in during a street fight. While the Krav guy is repping gun disarmament, the MMA guy is repping double legs, guard passing, and GNP.

In sum: (experienced Krav guy vs experienced MMA guy)
Random surprise attack: Krav guy might win.
Planned square off: MMA guy takes it.

[Enrique "Kiko"]

Now the real question of show downs in the octagon.

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2. WoW Player vs Starcraft Player
3. The "Tastes Great" girl vs the "Less Filling" girl
4. Obama vs Bush

[Louis Ho]

The problem with Krav is the way they train. Here's an example. They have one guy stand in the middle, while let's say 10 other guys surround him. They attack him one by one, each guy takes a turn to mock attack and let the guy in the middle mock knee him in the nuts several times. What does this accomplish besides giving you a false sense that you can take on multiple attackers?