24 year old dies from rear naked choke

[Chris Herzog]

Not unless those skate boarders are playing a game of "let smash each other in the face with our boards until once of us falls down, last man standing wins".

[David Rosado]

if you have no emotion for a dead human being and a 14 year old who now has to go through life knowing he's killed his cousin, then that is the very definition of being cold blooded. void of emotion. how can we disagree on the definition of cold blooded? and true, you never said you didn't have compassion for his family or those he left behind, but you did call their 2 family members, idiots, and compared them to chimps.

No one is denying that it's tragic. But tragedy doesn't negate the fact that it was STUPID. Cold blooded=apathetic. Whether the reaction was compassion, anger, disappointment, whatever...if there was an emotion, you can't call a person cold blooded.

Idiot=someone who does something stupid. No foul here. Seems pretty accurate, unfortunately.

The comparison to chimps is metaphoric, obviously. Not so much an insult as much as it was an analogy. Again, it's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Kind of messed up considering there's a woman on the forums that found out she wasn't "the fittest" and has leukemia. Everyone has an opinion I guess.

The kid was 14 years old, blaming him for not knowing the effects of blocking the carotid arteries for longer than 10 seconds? Yeah okay. Blaming the 24 year old man who passes out 6-9 seconds into it, no longer in control of the situation? Makes sense to blame him to.

Bad comparison. A person doesn't choose to get an illness. These two guys chose to do something stupid. Blaming a 14 year old kid? Eh. Blaming a 24 year old man? Hell yeah. He's a GROWN ASS MAN. 6-9 seconds is a looooong time to tap. He CHOSE not to. It's unfortunate, but again, the tragedy doesn't negate the fact that it was a death as a result of stupidity.

No offense, but they really didn't do anything different that what a couple kid would do. People emulate TV all the time. Kids were diving off fences to superfly each other when I was young. They weren't under supervision or professional wrestlers, just Hulk Hogan fans. Nowdays they see the RNC and arm bars as the thing to imitate.

IMO the whole thing is a shame.
For all we know, he could have been the nicest guy in the world, with a million friends, and could have been an asset to his community. Either way it's a terrible loss for his family.

The problem is that this wasn't 2 kids. This was a grown man and a young teen with MULTIPLE onlookers. It's tragic, but unfortunately for them, they lacked in the intelligence department and someone died for it.

[Kurzy]

Not unless those skate boarders are playing a game of "let smash each other in the face with our boards until once of us falls down, last man standing wins".

LOL. Good one.


Anyhow it's obvious we aren't going to agree on this one. I'm OK with that. I see it as a terrible accident that happened to a couple people that were just having fun, wrestling like they see on a TV. I don't see it as death by stupidity, I just see it as a real shame.

[derrick ikwueme]

as for the kid thing, i let my nephew slap on a RNC on me a grown man, and my nephew is 12 & let me tell you that choke was tight, little kids can choke out adults, thats a testiment to the power of jiujitsu, and that has to be respected. this aint WWE and jiujitsu aint fake.

[bobby rivers]

The fundamental difference between jj and many other comparisons is that jj was created to mame and kill. A skateboard, not so much. Unless weilded as a weapon, then it would be an accurate comparison as would be fair to compare it to a loaded gun. They played with fire and got severely burned. It is what it is.

[Freddy Chavez]

No one is denying that it's tragic. But tragedy doesn't negate the fact that it was STUPID. Cold blooded=apathetic. Whether the reaction was compassion, anger, disappointment, whatever...if there was an emotion, you can't call a person cold blooded.

he had already admitted to having no emotion for the two involved. no emotion for the dead 24 year old. and no emotion for the 14 year old kid. not a man, but a kid who isn't old enough to vote or have a driver's permit. the kid has to go through his life knowing he's killed his cousin. no emotion for that, no compassion, no sympathy, no empathy, nothing. that is the definition of cold blooded.

[derrick ikwueme]

he had already admitted to having no emotion for the two involved. no emotion for the dead 24 year old. and no emotion for the 14 year old kid. not a man, but a kid who isn't old enough to vote or have a driver's permit. the kid has to go through his life knowing he's killed his cousin. no emotion for that, no compassion, no sympathy, no empathy, nothing. that is the definition of cold blooded.

dude like bobby rivers said, they played with fire and got burned, lol it is what it is for sure

[Freddy Chavez]

laughing out loud huh ? ok.

[Jason Hyatt]

There is a really important distinction that hasn't been made in this thread or the other one with the Gracie breakdown. I tried before, but I think I wasn't clear. We keep talking about "blood choke" and "air choke" as though it's the type of choke that killed him. What killed him was what happened AFTER he was unconscious. This is huge.

The RNC deprives the brain of blood. When the brain is deprived of oxygenated blood the heart rate decreases and you lose muscle tone throughout your body. We've all seen somebody go limp; you already know this. That loss of blood to the brain is why we lift someone's legs and NOT their heads. Most of the time, they've been out for a short period, their heart rate didn't dip much, and they wake up quickly.

In this case, they describe him as already being blue. That means his oxygen saturation was at less than 85% and his heart rate had already been driven very low. When you're out deep and lose muscle tone that loss includes the muscles of the upper airway; e.g. the tongue. (That's why you have to be intubated for surgery. You are unconscious and cannot protect your airway.) Now when you let go of the choke, even lifting his legs isn't going to help. He's lost his AIRWAY. He's a big guy with a difficult airway who is too unconscious to open his own -- he needs someone to do it for him. He's been too deprived of oxygen and he needs his airway opened and his heart rate brought back up so the blood can get back to his brain.

He did not die from the choke directly. The brain must be deprived of oxygen for almost four full minutes to die. The choke deprived his brain of oxygen for 30 seconds. It was during that 30 seconds that his heart rate slowed, his blood pressure dropped, and his muscles went limp. Now that he had no way of restoring his own airway and getting his own heart rate up, he stayed in that anoxic condition until an ambulance arrived -- which was almost certainly a lot longer than four minutes. The choke put him in the condition; what killed him was STAYING in that condition even after the choke had been released.

That's a really, really important distinction to me because we have to understand the dangers in what we do. A short interruption of blood flow to the brain requires a different response than a prolonged interruption of blood flow to the brain. Once you have been down long enough that you can't protect your own airway you are at serious risk for permanent injury or death.