Vitamin Junkie

[QUOTE=Eddie Bravo;144556]I take 16 vitamins, about 70 minerals, 12 amino acids(protein), 3 essential fatty acids every day. I've been taking all that shit plus more like acidophilus for over 20 years and I feel great. :)

I never said taking more vitamins than you need is going to make you feel bad/get sick. Its really hard to take too much water soluble vitamins and fat suitable are not likely to have effect for decades and that’s with heavy over consumption. Of course amino acids are just monomers of protein (not really protein though) so that what most food is broken down to before it is "digested" anyway. Taking probiotics probably won’t hurt you because most of them die quickly or never "come to life" in your gut but we don’t have much science yet on how it could affect your natural intestinal flora. If you’ve been taking it this long and your healthy then its probably just fine, for you.

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

I'm amazed a grown man is resorting to person attacks over vitamin shit. What the hell does this have to do with wonder bread? I wouldn’t eat that stuff. You must be insecure in your beliefs or just really emotional.

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Personal attacks? Lighten the fuck up Francis is was a joke.

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Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla

Coach Zog is just fucking around. Insecure is not the word I would use to describe him ever. He just cares about seeing people take care of themselves and honestly listening to listen to government and corporate funded "proven science" studies is like watching the evening news and hoping to hear honest reporting. Sure some of of it's honest and good but most of it is going to be a fat crock of shit.

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Lies!

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

Thanks for your permission to agree with prevailing science. I didn’t mean to offend you. Most people have spent years of their lives studding this would consider your opinion bullshit by the way. Pretty much like a white belt calling your jujitsu opinions bullshit (of course these are not my opinions but the scientific communities’ current prevailing thinking so I'm not emotionaly invested)

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All the research funded by pharmaceutical companies per chance?

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

I was going to dig up some link but honestly all you have to do is use google.

Here wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedra..._United_States

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To be fair you stated that many have died taking non FDA approved supplements. Providing a simple Wikipedia link on one thing which isn't even conclusive isn't exactly damming evidence. There is substantially more evidence that FDA approved drugs have caused the death of 'many' people. I've yet to see any damming evidence that taking vitamin C, D or spirilina or probiotics has killed lots and lots of people.

The FDA however admits on IT'S OWN WEBSITE that the drugs it APPROVES kills 100,000 people every year. Check out the link below confirming this,

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/Development.../ucm114848.htm

Thanks but no thanks

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Originally Posted by Kyle Spalla

Coach Zog is just fucking around. Insecure is not the word I would use to describe him ever. He just cares about seeing people take care of themselves and honestly listening to listen to government and corporate funded "proven science" studies is like watching the evening news and hoping to hear honest reporting. Sure some of of it's honest and good but most of it is going to be a fat crock of shit.

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I guess I’m still getting used to online forums. In person people seem to treat each other with more respect. The last thing I want is some kind of problem with a brown belt in the system. It’s like a waking nightmare. For some reason this is a hot topic with people, regardless of my credentials on the topic, I'm new to the system and jujitsu so it probably best if I just bow out of this thread.

The science that is marketed to consumers is mostly bullshit just like everything that is marketed to you including dietary supplements. Sure some is genuine, most is to sell you something or scare you for entertainment. This doesn’t mean that the scientific community is not doing good work. The “info” presented to people though the media is entertainment. You have to subscribe to medical journals and spend time looking for real data.

Because I said you work for wonder bread?


Is this real life?

Of course more people die from taking fda approved drugs. Think of the number of people who take fda approved drugs compared to non fda approved. Also those people are far more likely to be correctly diagnosed as dying from a drug which was known to be prescribed to them than someone taking a drug with no record. Many of the drugs approved for use by the FDA are known to be dangerous and have risk associated with taking them but in the right case they can save lives. When they don’t the number of people killed by FDA approved drugs sometimes increases. If you are trying to say that it is not confirmed that ephedra has killed many people then you didn’t read Wikipedia. I never worte that taking vitamin C, D or spirilina or probiotics has killed lots and lots of people. People are just going to belive what feels right usally. Maybe science is wrong, it has been before.

By "Is this real life?" are you asking if am I being serious or do you mean, do I think that online forums are real life? Maybe I'm wrong, It's hard to pick up on tone and intention on the internet when you don’t know someone. I just felt like you seemed offended because you said "you can believe that bullshit..." and then the wonder bread thing, which I guess was meant to imply I had some alterior motive in my post, I know it was meant to be funny, I thought it was at my expense. And you wrote that your wife works for a vitamin company (although if you read my post vitamins aren’t thought to be a real risk)

I just recently found that there is something really addictive about the 10th planet system. I want to be around and keep learning. I know you are an important person in 10th planet. People often have a really personal attachment to their opinions on health topics and I just felt like it might be appropriate for me to show some humility. Sorry about anything I posted about you, it was out of line.

I'm not offended at all, you need to lighten up around here, you're going to work yourself into a lather.

Ok. I admit I’m naturally a serious person. Sometimes it’s hard for me to tell when people are joking even in person.

Coach Zog is a teddy bear...that kneebars and leg locks you. I say this purely because he lives and New York and his hand get reach my throat from there lol. Ease up Buzzkillington it's all in good fun :)

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

Of course more people die from taking fda approved drugs. Think of the number of people who take fda approved drugs compared to non fda approved. Also those people are far more likely to be correctly diagnosed as dying from a drug which was known to be prescribed to them than someone taking a drug with no record. Many of the drugs approved for use by the FDA are known to be dangerous and have risk associated with taking them but in the right case they can save lives. When they don’t the number of people killed by FDA approved drugs sometimes increases. If you are trying to say that it is not confirmed that ephedra has killed many people then you didn’t read Wikipedia. I never worte that taking vitamin C, D or spirilina or probiotics has killed lots and lots of people. People are just going to belive what feels right usally. Maybe science is wrong, it has been before.

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That dosen't quite add up because according to a study sponsored by the CDC found that more than 40 percent of Americans used supplements from 1988 to 1994, and more than one half took vitamins from 2003 to 2006. Multivitamins were found to be the most commonly used supplement. Yet we did not hear of numbers of 100,000 people a year dying from taking non FDA approved supplements did we?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/vitamin...4#.UGfJ4VFdPrc

I did read that Wikipedia page and from what I remember when I looked into that years ago was that the issue was far more complex then what is written on that wikipedia page. I cannot be bothered to get into that at that the moment it's not worth the hassle.

You specifically wrote that and I quote 'Many have died taking non-fda supplements'. That is quite a statement and one which you have failed to back up. You didn't write Ephedra has killed alot of people you said non-fda supplements so that covers quite alot of things including vitamin C, D, probiotics etc.

Science is political and motivated by money. There are countless examples of profit over health. What was that famous saying by that guy from Glaxo-kline-smith? 'A patient cured is a customer lost?' I believe the more people take good supplements the healthier they will be and that will affect profit margins.

The video on this link is really good I believe at explaining just how safe FDA approved things really are for peoples health.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...h-century.aspx

Anyway there is nothing more to be said from my side. We see things differently for now but perhaps in the future your views may change.

I wish you well

Not all types of dietary supplement are considered dangerous. I think that what I wrote in my original post. Multivitamins are probably the safest group. I picked ephedra because it so well known. There are more but come on how much time am I going to spend on this?

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsro.../ucm316469.htm

One of the greatest redeeming qualities of science is that it doesn’t arrive at beliefs but conclusions and theories which are subject to change when more/different information is available. One day both of our thoughts on the subject are sure to be different at least in some degree.

I personally take Vita-Freak from PharmaFreak, but I don't know how happy I am with it.


http://militantlibertarian.org/wp-co...terest_600.jpg
http://www.whale.to/cancer/FDA_Approved_600.jpg

Awesome thread! Thanks Coach Herzog for your knowledge, there is lots of great info here!

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

All the research funded by pharmaceutical companies per chance?

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Just because a lot of the prevailing research is done by people you view to have a bias, doesn't mean you should discount all research and instead choose unresearched paths. Thats just plain silly. And if you want to get into biased sources of information, your wife sells supplements, doesn't that make you biased? And the supplement industry is rife with snake oil salesman, primarily because they can make unsubstantiated claims and use proprietary blends.

And what is your basis for your RDA of Vitamin C? Most athletic research I've read shows a decrease from excessively high vitamin C levels.

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Originally Posted by Gray

Just because a lot of the prevailing research is done by people you view to have a bias, doesn't mean you should discount all research and instead choose unresearched paths. Thats just plain silly. And if you want to get into biased sources of information, your wife sells supplements, doesn't that make you biased? And the supplement industry is rife with snake oil salesman, primarily because they can make unsubstantiated claims and use proprietary blends.

And what is your basis for your RDA of Vitamin C? Most athletic research I've read shows a decrease from excessively high vitamin C levels.

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My wife sells those supplements NOW, becasue she had serious issue for years that doctors and pharmaceuticals fucked up and made worse, which in turn "required" surgeries. She was about to give up until a friend suggested a holisitic doctor. We were both very skeptical until we saw the results. Now about 8 years later she sell the products and invests all her time (when not at her regular job) into further educating herself and others in the natural health field. It is not her source of income, and she actually looses money every year because she cares more about others health than her own gain. What unresearched paths? There are plenty of studies showing the benefits on natural health.

Vit C is water soluble and is constatnly being depleted from your body hense the need for great quantity, especially for athletes. I'll have my wife find me the data and I'll post it.

Pharm are big money opperated and are motivated by profit, of course their data will be biased in their favor.

The main issue with holistic IMO is there is very few peer reviewed research on it. There's just as much monetary bias going on, the few studies done are usually done by companies with a stake in holistic healing. So it has the same baggage as the FDA, but with less easily verifiable study results. A lot of it is based upon tradition and folk medicine. Don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot of folk medicine out there that is truly reliable, hell take a look at aspirin. But just because your mother's mother did it, doesn't mean its actually effective. A lot of products have studies that look like they were run by MuscleTech.

Also in the field of nutrition I think there is more bias created by special interest groups that sell products than by Pharma. The dairy council is a great example of this, they greatly use their funds to change public perception on dairy, its affect on health and use political lobbying to ensure that it remains a cornerstone in federally mandated diet guidelines.

I take supplements, but I also take a look into peer reviewed research on the supplements before I do. I think Aaron, while being hyper sensitive, did have a good point. I will agree that federal mandates on healthy lifestyles are extremely unreliable due to political pressuring from special interest groups. There are a lot of vitamins/minerals I feel have RDA's that are completely off, its just hard to give a good parabola on RDA's for such a diverse population. I feel that over the next several decades we are going to see adverse effects from over supplementing of vitamins through fortification, but it might be lost/misinterpreted with the current obesity crisis.

Overall, if you and your wife are experiencing a high quality of life on your current regiment I doubt we will ever agree on the subject of holistic medicine.

Hypersensitive? now I'm gonna have to kill myself.

Hindsights gold, I'm new to the system, the forum and forums in general. Dude it's easy to see how you think it was a matter of being hyper sensitive, but really I'm not used to even thinking about talking back to brown belts, and since in most systems "respect" is such a big deal, I'm not used to them talking to me in a real person to person manner without the air of "professionalism" or whatever. I thought about how to respond and honestly I would normally rather but heads but I thought It was just a better idea to supplicate myself, since i'd rather look like a bitch and stay in the system then maybe win an argument and be shunned by the community.
I have a better feel for how things work here now, thanks to Herzog.

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

Hypersensitive? now I'm gonna have to kill myself.

Hindsights gold, I'm new to the system, the forum and forums in general. Dude it's easy to see how you think it was a matter of being hyper sensitive, but really I'm not used to even thinking about talking back to brown belts, and since in most systems "respect" is such a big deal, I'm not used to them talking to me in a real person to person manner without the air of "professionalism" or whatever. I thought about how to respond and honestly I would normally rather but heads but I thought It was just a better idea to supplicate myself, since i'd rather look like a bitch and stay in the system then maybe win an argument and be shunned by the community.
I have a better feel for how things work here now, thanks to Herzog.

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It's all good we are real peeps too, and btw you'll never win an arguement with me ;)

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Originally Posted by Gray

The main issue with holistic IMO is there is very few peer reviewed research on it. There's just as much monetary bias going on, the few studies done are usually done by companies with a stake in holistic healing. So it has the same baggage as the FDA, but with less easily verifiable study results. A lot of it is based upon tradition and folk medicine. Don't get me wrong, I think there is a lot of folk medicine out there that is truly reliable, hell take a look at aspirin. But just because your mother's mother did it, doesn't mean its actually effective. A lot of products have studies that look like they were run by MuscleTech.

Also in the field of nutrition I think there is more bias created by special interest groups that sell products than by Pharma. The dairy council is a great example of this, they greatly use their funds to change public perception on dairy, its affect on health and use political lobbying to ensure that it remains a cornerstone in federally mandated diet guidelines.

I take supplements, but I also take a look into peer reviewed research on the supplements before I do. I think Aaron, while being hyper sensitive, did have a good point. I will agree that federal mandates on healthy lifestyles are extremely unreliable due to political pressuring from special interest groups. There are a lot of vitamins/minerals I feel have RDA's that are completely off, its just hard to give a good parabola on RDA's for such a diverse population. I feel that over the next several decades we are going to see adverse effects from over supplementing of vitamins through fortification, but it might be lost/misinterpreted with the current obesity crisis.

Overall, if you and your wife are experiencing a high quality of life on your current regiment I doubt we will ever agree on the subject of holistic medicine.

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Ok

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

It's all good we are real peeps too, and btw you'll never win an arguement with me ;)

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Will too, infinity!:p

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

It's all good we are real peeps too, and btw you'll never win an arguement with me ;)

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Will too, infinity!:p

Does 2 infinities make it a double negative?

I will just go on record here saying "Fuck the Pharamceutical cabal".

Anyone who touts that naturalpathic healing is not authentic because it has not been "vetted" by medical "practitioners" and the medical industry needs to do a little reading on a couple subjects called "Tavistock institute of Human Relations", "Social engineering" and "Profit through symptom management".

Cannabis cures cancer. It's illegal.
Fasting cures cancer. That information is ignored by mainstream medicine.

There is money profit in having the population healthy, but rest assured, a huge percentage of North Americans are sick even though we are the "best fed" Continent in the world. (Thanks Monsanto)

Meanwhile Cancer fundraisers (suckers) are turned away if they don't raise a minimum of a $5000 donation to "the cause", which, rumour has it, only 1% of that money goes towards actual cancer research. Everyone is being duped. It's a giant crock of shit. These fucking thieves are stealing money from the blue collar suckers, and talking everyone into wearing pink shirts, and having men enter races wearing high-heeled shoes and whatever other demeaning bullshit they can think of, and it's all for making fat cats fatter.

No one duped me kurzy, I wear high heals cuz they make my calves look banging, and my shirt isn't pink it's salmon

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Originally Posted by Stewart Landry

No one duped me kurzy, I wear high heals cuz they make my calves look banging, and my shirt isn't pink it's salmon

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lol, that salmon shirt is totally gonna clash with your pink makeup bag.



http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/1Bc...jpg_181815.jpg

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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Does 2 infinities make it a double negative?

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lol, well in math there is positive infinity and negative infinity, but infinityXinfinity=infinity and infinity^infinity=infinity. You could have busted out the, I'm rubber your glue... comeback.

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Originally Posted by Kurzy

I will just go on record here saying "Fuck the Pharamceutical cabal".

Anyone who touts that naturalpathic healing is not authentic because it has not been "vetted" by medical "practitioners" and the medical industry needs to do a little reading on a couple subjects called "Tavistock institute of Human Relations", "Social engineering" and "Profit through symptom management".

Cannabis cures cancer. It's illegal.
Fasting cures cancer. That information is ignored by mainstream medicine.

There is money profit in having the population healthy, but rest assured, a huge percentage of North Americans are sick even though we are the "best fed" Continent in the world. (Thanks Monsanto)

Meanwhile Cancer fundraisers (suckers) are turned away if they don't raise a minimum of a $5000 donation to "the cause", which, rumour has it, only 1% of that money goes towards actual cancer research. Everyone is being duped. It's a giant crock of shit. These fucking thieves are stealing money from the blue collar suckers, and talking everyone into wearing pink shirts, and having men enter races wearing high-heeled shoes and whatever other demeaning bullshit they can think of, and it's all for making fat cats fatter.

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Tavisstock is social "science". Cannabis does not cure cancer, my uncle recommends cannabis and marinol to cancer and some other terminal patents, they still die bro, but THC in conjunction with other cannabinoids has been shown to prevent or stop the development of precancerous cells. That was a "mainstream science" finding by the way.

There is evidence that fasting may increase the effectiveness of chemotherapy,

http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/...9-47bb07091129

Doctors want to help sick people. There is no nationwide conspiracy at the doctor patient level. The reliance on prescription drugs has gotten a little out of hand (way out of hand for certain conditions) and Mercks influence at the medical school level is appalling. Thing is most doctors are smart, discerning people who spot bullshit as easily or more easily than most. Doctors know better than anyone that pharmaceutical companies exist for profit.

Thanks for an info packed thread guys.

Sorry Aaron, but you're wrong. There is a conspiracy. All Doctors are brainwashed, no question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tghUh4ubbg

You're also wrong when you say that doctors want to cure people. My wife waited for months and months to see a specialist about an autoimmune thing she was suffering, and all he did was try to bump up her antihistamine prescription. He never thought to research it, and figure out what was causing it.

I don't even use weed, so don't think I'm a pot-head who is trying to justify it for that purpose.

Just like any profession, whether it a mechanic or a teacher or a landscaper or a doctor, some suck and some are great.
I have my whole neck and upper back are covered in a THC pain salve right now. It works better than tiger balm for me.
What I should have wrote is that so far we have only demonstrated that some of the chemicals in cannabis can inhibit precancers cells. So it's has a preventive effect, not unbelievable that it could slow or even stop certain types of cancer. The government is just so tight with allowing research that its almost impossible to make progress. Right now most studies are limited to mice or cell line cultures. These methods are super weak as far as providing compelling evidence. I'd love to see cannabis proven to cure some types of cancer, hasn't been yet. This guys video is very interesting to me as a pothead and science student but it is far from compelling as evidence. I was already aware of Cannabis SCience Inc. They make the cream he used I think. They have people with good credentials on board but they don't seem to ever publish their work.