sounds like you're just way better than me. even when they cant control my head for long, i still have to fight to get out and thats when the lips can get smashed up without a mouth guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
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sounds like you're just way better than me. even when they cant control my head for long, i still have to fight to get out and thats when the lips can get smashed up without a mouth guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cody Kietzman
an open hand shot on the back of the head can make your legs go out. Our coach was just showing us this for setting up the standing guillotine.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorV
So what about the lightest/weakest person in the gym? How do they deal with the "pace"?? That's jiujitsu bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
So what you just said is that your willing hinder your progress to get some "classroom taps"?
Ouch! Whoever did that to you must've been a real jerk!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurzy
Keep us posted kurzy, doc stitched ya up yet?
i wear a cup but no mouth guard. my clinch is so amazing they never have a chance at seeing my face really......... ;)
i didnt wear a cup for the first two years then finally invested and im not going back, if you get good ones then they shouldnt annoy people too much, i use shock doctor. i think half the problem people have with cups is that there are douches that use them to do things like armbars and getting in back mount etc. they same kind of guys that will do a douchebag to get an armbar while n training. with mouthguards, i dunno i cant stand having them in my mouth, maybe i should invest in a fancy one but ive never ahd a problem, im usually pretty careful with my head.
and Aaron, the guys at my gym are all physical freaks that go at 200% aswell, and i beat them down with a good clinch and technique. there are lots of moves that use strength against people usually because powering through can leave holes for us to use. im not saying lie there like a dead jellyfish but rolling softer 5 times a week will be a lot better for than than rolling hard 1 time every fortnight becuase you have little injuries.
and t-rexing helps with protecting your head cos there is such a small distance to make to cover up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwu6au8cG7o
Benefits of wearing a mouth guard by Rocky Balboa. Every punch Rocky has ever taken, EVER.
I am obviously in a minority here but I find the use of if not insistence on mouth guards and cups entirely peculiar.
There is no culture of using mouth guards and cups in judo and wrestling and I am not aware following years of participation in both sports of injury to mouth or genitals being a particular problem even taking into account the aggressive encounters and frequent high impact collisions that occur.
As for making a mouth piece a mandatory requirement to roll, I find this totally bizarre. I am not aware of any such requirement in any BJJ school in Brazil or indeed any of the better BJJ schools I have visited in the US including Renzo's and Marcelo's.
Is there some strange aspect or feature of submission grappling which I am missing or is this simply an indication of a risk shy
modern society?
I may be old school but I think that most of you are going totally overboard in exaggerating the risks to your well being.
if little injuries stop you from rolling every night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac Atley
It was a headlock escape from the bottom. I had my left hand cupping his arm by his shoulder and the right hand was cupped to block. Supposed to block his arm near the elbow. Which is what I did. Unfortunately, he still had the reach. I'm 5'6" and the guy I was rolling with was 6'4". Thankfully it wasn't full speed or all that hard. Just annoyed me because I did the technique right and still got clocked. I'll have to modify it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
* nudge nudge, wink wink *Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey
All stitched up. Five stitches. S'all good.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
i always wear a cup and mouthpiece. i'm too poor to get a fitted mouthpiece, but maybe when i'm rolling the cash like Passini i'll spring for one. as of now, it's just a pink tapout brand that i got from academy.
you didn't use mouthguards where you wrestled? In central cali most guys did and if you had braces you had to. I believe that some schools make everyone wear them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterm
Im telling you, if you train at our gym without a mouth guard, theres a good chance your lips will be all puffy and tender or you'll get a cut. We're doing submission wrestling for mma but even without strikes while rolling when your going 100% for a long time things happen. Last time i forgot my mouthguard my coach told me i was bleeding between rolls, small cut lip. Time before puffy tender lips. Like I said before, I kneed the shit out of my instructor right on the jaw not long ago.
Zog says wear a mouthguard so you can't really argue with that.
Yep, I ALWAYS 'try' to roll super playful and keep it really technical unless the guy I am rolling with goes really hard then I may amp it up a little. Obviously pre comp we are all rolling pretty hard. However not so hard and reckless everybody is getting injured, making it so even the people rolling around us are in danger of a heel to the face or whatever. Training environments like that are non productive. Also how long you want to do jiu jitsu for? Me, as long as I am alive, hopefully until I am 90 years. That wont happen if you don't keep it playful.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
My training partners are competing and getting medals at the world and national level so we must be doing something right over here.
:)
you quoted that like you agree with it then you say that when you're rolling with a guy that goes hard, up you step, it up and precomp you roll hard. Training environments where people are getting injured all the time went even discussed on this thread unless you include things that dont stop you from rolling. Were talking mashed lips, bruises and bumps not strained joints and concussions, although, according to zog if you don't wear a mouthpiece then you are risking conclusion. And yeah with no turney on the horizon you're gonna do more drilling and calmer rolling cause that how you advance your technical game, its just not the only aspect.
i dont know what scotts other grappling experience is but hes giving advice like hes higher than a white belt. A cross face can still grind depending on what else goes down while its on. Accidental blows of any kind are not common but happen (dont know why he picked elbows) chokes can be perfectly clean but slipping them you can get pressure on your mouth.
Don't know who runs your hotbox but I already roll with higher levels guys and there are a shit load of medals on the wall so you're not dropping any knowledge here. I fucked up saying anyone should roll differently than they do already, learn from my mistake and have some humility.
White belts can give advice to you know. He may have been training 6+ years but never done a grading for all we know. Why are you so concerned? Can't you take tips and advice from a fellow white belt? Strange. I have had much higher belts than me (even when I was a white belt) ask me how I do certain things in training etc. They didn't seem to mind, no ego, and they took what I said on board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
Also, we are talking about protective equipment and injuries in training due to Kurzy getting injured in training, so of course we are going to talk about training environments, it is the evolution of the conversation in this thread. So so sorry I didn't keep it perfectly on topic for you! LOL
goddamn it! i'm doing it again. I have a life long struggle with being a real dick. Im gonna try to not make a post for a few weeks. a guy with no belt shouldn't have this much to say.
you confusing the part of my post that was addressed to you with the part toward scottray. my fault for the bad post. i didn't see your before i posted the one above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Sales
White belts can give advice yes. most appropriately when asked as in your example. He wasn't giving advice he was trying to drop knowledge as if i was wrong. I dont see the topic of the thread having evolved as you do but, oh well.
what do you mean so concerned? what made you think i was concerned or especially concerned? i can take tips/advice from anyone, if its good. I thought it was kind of a custom that you're supposed to get a blue before you teach though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Sales
I am pretty sure Scott is a blue anyway (bjj) , he just didn't want to change his avvy until he had been ranked by a 10p instructor. Which is what I also did. Luckily for me it was the day after. :)
Aaron,
What happens in central Cali as far as wrestling is concerned is really an anomaly when looking at the rest of the world.
I assume that the fear of litigation in the US drives the need to be extra cautious but there are thousands of wrestling clubs throughout Russia, Iran and central Europe where mouthgards let alone cups are not the norm. Judo in Japan can be rough but cups and mouthpieces are not worn.
I am not sure what it is about your practice that involves such a high risk of injury and makes the wearing of protection. This is simply not my experience of Judo, wrestling or BJJ where as I said you might anticipate that the danger from high impact collisions is greater.
Zog is of course highly respected but his views are not in line with practices adopted at leading grappling schools -whether judo, wrestling or BJJ - to the best of my knowledge.
Quit dicken up the place, dick. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson
Aaron,
What happens in central Cali as far as wrestling is concerned is really an anomaly when looking at the rest of the world.
I assume that the fear of litigation in the US drives the need to be extra cautious but there are thousands of wrestling clubs throughout Russia, Iran and central Europe where mouthgards let alone cups are not the norm. Judo in Japan can be rough but cups and mouthpieces are not worn.
I am not sure what it is about your practice that involves such a high risk of injury and makes the wearing of protection. This is simply not my experience of Judo, wrestling or BJJ where as I said you might anticipate that the danger from high impact collisions is greater.
Zog is of course highly respected but his views are not in line with practices adopted at leading grappling schools -whether judo, wrestling or BJJ - to the best of my knowledge.
As far as the whole "Roll harder, Peterborough" comment goes, I'm not sure I understand how to take that.
Personally as a whitebelt, my game is changing as I get more comfortable with Jiu Jitsu. I know when I first started I was super spazztic, flinging limbs all over the place, whirling around like tornado, needlessly scrambling, etc. As I become more and more comfortable my general movements are slowing down, because I want them too. I have one year into Jiu Jitsu now and I am just starting to feel comfortable.
There are a few guys at our club who play a slow and steady game, where the pressure is one and you see things coming, but because of weight distribution, contact control, etc, there is not much you can do to stop whatever you see coming.
I have always been impressed by guys who roll like that, and I am trying to emulate that slow, steady, unstoppable pressure.
I can also be explosive and ultra fast if the game calls for that, but in general I make a concerted effort to roll under control and at pace that is slower than my old spazztic speed.
The dynamics of the matches change all the time. In my experience, two whitebelts tend to go harder and faster at each other than a whitebelt versus a senior belt. Typically the whitebelts don't want to tap to each other so the match intensity will escalate. I always try to slow things down when that happens.
Generally if a whitebelt rolls a higher belt/higher skilled player, the higher belt will set the match tempo anyways, and based on what I have experienced, it's a measured tempo.
So what I am saying is sometimes we roll easy, sometimes we roll "hard", but either way our rolling NEVER lacks in intensity in Peterborough.
Very few people here are as old school as I am, there a number of risks with not wearing a mouth piece. Old doesn't mean better, and it sure as shit doesn't mean smarter. Our knowledge and awareness of brain injuries in combat sports is far superior now that it was in the "ole timey days". It's a serious issue and needs to be addressed, if your coach doesn't care enough about your safety, you should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterm
If being a international Judo and Sambo medalist wasn't enough to expose me to leading Grappling Schools, Gene Lebell himself is the one that convinced me that wearing mouth guards was a paramount to a grapplers safety.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterm
Ps. The Russians all wear mouth guards. I have an funny story about Russians obsessing about mouth pieces, however I have to run to teach, but when I get time I post it later.
Well this topic has convinced me to start wearing mine :)
To those saying "You roll to hard", you obviously never rolled at HQ or at my academy.
Motto of this thread:
Wear your mouth guard on the mats and your flame suit on the forum!
Brian 'Barncat' Debes is the instructor of our now full on affiliate school. also, Im a 12 year blue belt. I was and am still very anti-gi, which living in Texas means your anti-rank. If any high level guys thought what i said was wrong, they woulda spoke up... but i didnt...i really did drop knowledge. roll softer. try to learn and train in class instead of trying to "win" ... trust me bro :)
oh we roll hard... but its still controlled. At HQ the skill lvl on those mats is so high that everyone can roll at a good pace and stay safe and smooth..
a bunch of white belts going as hard as they can is always dangerous.
2 blackbelts going 95% are probably still safe
Regardless!! Wear the mouthpiece and cup!
It's like a seatbelt.... 99.9% of the time you genuinely don't need it... But that 0.10% when you do, you really really need it...
I did speak up. Telling someone to roll soft without knowing or understanding someone goals is silly, and uninformed. Goals dictate the approach one will take towards rolling.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
All levels roll hard at HQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
ok, i got rank pulled on me and since he has a brown, he;s right. you roll hard as you can... power out of moves, crossface with bad intentions, neck crank people when you know the choke isnt there, etc etc. Zog says thats the way to roll... so go for it. I just plan on doing this when im 75 years old still, so im gonna roll safe.
with that logic, then it would be wrong to tell him to roll hard also, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
Regardless of rolling hard or not, we are practicing Jiu Jitsu. Shit happens. People are going to have accidents.
You said no upper ranks challenged your point, i did. I know Eddie does as well, as I discussed hard/light rolling with him a number of times. Also if the above is your understanding of rolling hard, you are misinformed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay
Did you see me tell him to roll hard?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottRay