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I had a Jesuit Monk as a theologist teacher who read the bible in Aramaic directly from the dead sea scrolls in the Vatican Vault. For some reason, I doubt that any of us lack the credentials of that level to be discussing theology... and even he knew that he might have been wrong in his beliefs. Jesuits Monks are weird humble dudes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Ho
Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is inside of you so i have to look within myself to find god not Christ hes just the blue print for what all human beings can become.
Jesus taught that God is everywhere and in all things, you don't have to go somewhere else to find Him. Jesus was fully God and fully human. God is one being and yet God is several. This is way in the book of Genesis God said let US make man in OUR image. God is a holy trinity of Father, Spirit, and Son. God the Father sent the Son (Jesus) to earth to teach men the ways of God, and to die the death of a sinner even though he never sinned. Jesus died on a cross and took the place of everyone for every sin that has ever and will ever be committed. He took the punishment that we deserve for violating the laws of God, so that we may be forgiven. Then on the third day he rose from the dead vindicating everything He said He was. This is the gospel. Works do not earn you eternal life in heaven, but it is by faith and faith alone in Jesus Christ that we are saved. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." This is the good news that all christians have, and that anyone can have if you are willing.
JAnderson, you seem to want us to believe that you really love Jesus. How many languages can you read? Have you bothered to learn either Hebrew or Aramaic in an attempt to be closer to the word of God rather than referencing a poorly translated King James edition?
I always found it strange that many Jews, Muslims, and Catholic Priests will go out of their way to learn God's language but I have yet to meet non scholared christian that would do the same.
I dont mean to be disrespectful man but im here to discuss jiujitsu not god obviously ur not changing my mind im not going to change yours so lets keep religion out of this forum and keep it about jiujitsu mma and martial arts.
If the mods deem a particular topic off limits then I'm sure they will take appropriate action and we will all support them because that is there prerogative. Thanks to Eddie and his team, people can express their views in a civil manner on this forum. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate. No one is forcing you to read this thread or are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aikijiujitsu
Hey AJ, What's up?Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
I couldn't agree with you more about people learning the original languages their respective holy books. That way they can better understand the meaning of certain phrases in the context of the language and culture of the time. On the flip side, there are many atheists who have no clue about Quantum Physics or cosmology and the high level Calculus involved. Yet, they refer to it as if it is true, having never even attempted to derive the equations which they rely on to prove the nature of the universe. That's taking some science dude's word for it. Referencing science and not fully understanding the mathematics, the language of science, is equally as irresponsible.
Like I mentioned before, we all make decisions based on partial information.
No shit? So these guys are having a pissing contest over nothing? LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiCuellar
Everyone chill, we shall follow Moses now.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...bpgq98-3jwoto=
Pat Tillman's brother, is still mad about old shit, and takes it out on God.
View My Video
I'm afraid it's not the same thing especially since Atheism is not a belief system. You don't need to believe in science of any kind to be an atheist. Atheism is just a label used to coral individuals who don't believe in god, nothing more. I've never made any claims about how our knowledge of the galaxy makes the idea of god irrelevant and nor do I believe that such a point would even be relevant to the existence or non-existence of a god.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Rosę
I have not made such a decision on partial information. As a matter of fact, I haven't made a decision at all based upon quite a bit of information. That's what makes me an atheist.
I can't help but notice that the title of the thread is "This settles it..." Six pages in and it doesn't seem very settled to me. Seems like the whole "This settles it [I'm right, you're wrong impication]" is why people keep blowing each other up by the score and have for a very long time. How settled was it in 1998 when a protestant Irishman threw a hand grenade into a gathering of Catholic school girls? Mind you this was not a case of Muslim v. Christian. Not atheist v. Hindu. Not Pastafarian v. Swedish Lutheran. Protestant v. Catholic. Really? HAND GRENDADES AT SCHOOL GIRLS FOR FUCK'S SAKE?!? Because they're CATHOLIC?!? This is one of many, many, many reasons I eventually found solace in buddhism.
Not trying to stir up any shit at all (see previous post) but what you seem more to be describing is agnositicism. "Theos" is Greek for god. The prefix "A-" means without. So "a-theism" is ANY system in which there is no god of any kind. "Gnosis" is greek for knowledge. So "a-gnostic" literally means "without knowledge" or more simply "I dunno". An agnostic is pretty much anyone who is of the opinion that, yeah, maybe there is more to the universe than what I can experience directly; maybe not. Agnostics run the spectrum from "I'm pretty sure there is no god of any kind" to "hmmm, eh, fuck it you never know."Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
I understand the confusion however I am technically an agnostic atheist. Other people in this thread would be agnostic theists (since they probably don't believe in opposing deities). You are implying that Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. Well, that statement isn't logically possible. How can you believe in a non belief?
Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
Definition 2A, is what myself and most atheists would identify with. Definitions 1 and 2B are contemptuous uses of the word by theists, which is where the word itself has it's origins. It was initially used to by the Greeks to describe individuals who did not believe in the gods and was regarded as an insult.
The label of "atheist" is actually a contrivance designed to group non-believers into an artificial opposition group. It is much harder to argue with a logically minded individual who challenges and questions each and every religious claim that you make. It is much easier to group them, generalize their beliefs, and to construct an us versus them paradigm.
This has only gotten more convoluted recently with people like Richard Dawkins taking on the mantle of "Atheist" with a sort of antagonistic sense of pride. In reality though, some people just have personal standards of proof that most religions cannot account for.
lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by 3rdeye
Jesus said " I am THE WAY THE TRUTH and THE LIFE no man comes to the Father BUT BY ME "
I'm not singling you out specifically. When I write they I mean they, not you. To me atheism is a belief system. If atheist isn't a belief system, then atheists should have No Opinion. Ive never met an atheist who at some point wasn't willing to try to belittle my personal beliefs. What is such a desire to make it personal based in? No belief system? One cannot base on an opinion without coming to some sort of conclusion one way or the other. And when I say we all make decisions based on partial information, I mean we do it in our everyday lives, whether it is buying a house, grappling, teaching, choosing a mate, driving a car, crossing the street, picking a major, finding a job, etc. We can never be sure about anything with 100% certainty. We do the best we can with the information before us.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
I appreciate you not making this a personal issue as that is my goal as well. It is common for many theists to view atheism as a belief system but it really isn't. Just because I am counter arguing against the points of a theist doesn't mean that I must have or claim to have any points of my own to replace theirs. When I am arguing against any religion my point is not to prove anything I think or believe. It is just to merely explain why I do not believe what they believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando Rosę
As for atheists belittling your beliefs. That is common, because it is easy to throw stones at glass houses when you are homeless and don't have a glass house to throw stones from.
BTW, my best friend is an agnostic. He acknowledges to possibility of both God and no god. And does not take a stand either way.
Some of us work very hard not to throw stones. I'm about as liberal as they get. I live by the Motto: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." And obviously no one perfectly righteous. I leave any sort of judgment or condemnation about the way people live their lives to God. I got my own crap to deal with. If any of my posts came off as judgmental, that was not my intent. I was just defending my personal beliefs. I hold no animosity toward anyone here.
I knew a homeless guy who said the same thing. What's the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Noronowicz
Apologies; no implication intended. My intent was more to attempt finding a common defintion to use because -- as often seems to be the case with polarizing topics (see the Creation Science thread) -- we're not all using the same definitions. That leads to things like lumping people together with a label like "atheist" when those people may have very widely divergent degrees of belief or non-belief. I wholly agree that calling "atheism" a belief system is nonsensical. The prefix of the freakin' word means "without"! It simply makes no sense at all to call an atheist a "believer in no god". Sorry for the mix-up. I'm a little worn down from rolling on the Creation Science thread and my appetite for lengthy discussion is waning -- which leads to short phrases of sometimes confusing meaning. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
I would also agree that there are many, many shades of agnosticism; some lean toward a theistic belief others quite the opposite. I started out a Lutheran, became quite the bible-thumping Baptist, found myself an agnostic, and came to call buddhism home. It was a very long process (as most lifetime pursuits are). I still don't particularly believe in the divine beyond my own experience. What buddhists mean by "divine" and what we typically mean in the West aren't often the same thing. I have little to no belief at all in what would typically be called "supernatural" especially as it applies to religion.
My apologies for the presumption. Without knowing your true beliefs I sort of had to artificially nail your feet to the ground in order to construct an decisive sounding point.
He that has THE SON has life and he that has not the son of God HAS NOT LIFE
Lol that's a whole lot of people without a life then.
Thats why Jesus said the road is narrow and few will find it...
How does that work now considering the dominate popularity of Christianity today? They aren't the persecuted outsiders that they once were.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAnderson
You agree with all the rape, genocide, murder, incest, adultery, and hate that is in the Bible? Not a good book you want your kids to read..........instead give your kid a copy of " The Original Fried Chicken Recipe", this book will make anyone happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAnderson
There are a lot of fakes AJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Camacho
There are alot of people out there who claim to be Christians but who don't live as truly surrendered servants to Christ. This is why when Jesus spoke on the day of judgment... "Many will say to me on that day, Lord Lord did we not prophesy in your name and drive out demons and perform many miracles? Then i will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers!"
So now there's more to it than accepting Christ as your savior? I'm sorry, I didn't read the small print. Let me guess, you and all of your best church friends happen to be the "real" Christians? Christians make up 2.1 billion of the world's population. Even if you were to just give them a 1% "real Christian" quotient that would still mean 12 million people. So that means that if 1 out of every 100 people in your congregation made it into heaven you would still have the population of Tokyo.
Here's your narrow road.
http://www.electricscotland.com/thom...%20traffic.jpg
I understand that my comment was a bit flippant but lets not condemn people to hell here. That's not productive and not very polite.
i don't know the numbers. i just know theres a differnece between believeing somthing in your head, and having a belief in your heart. if you only think Jesus is Lord in your head, but your life does nothing to reflect your claim... then you need to stop and evaluate yourself. Only each person can know for sure where they are in there walk. Jesus said if your truely love me you will obey my commands. He also said if we want to follow Him we must pick up our cross daily and die to self. To completely deny ourselfs and surrender our lives to Him. i understand why it can be considered offensive, but this is the The Truth Jesus the Christ came and died on a cross for us to know.
I get that it is your truth but do you understand how arrogant it is to impose the judgement of that truth onto those that do not believe it? You told me I am going to hell. You yourself do not even know if you are going to make it to heaven. Trust me, I know the high standards of christianity and I am quite confident that you have masturbated within the past year. I know for a fact, that you and every other human being cannot live up to the standard of Christianity as set forth by Christ.
What you are essentially playing is a game of heaven or hell roulette where you are trying to increase your odds so that when the ball stops, and you die, that it lands on your color. So to then, take your questionable existence and then to judge my fate, that is beyond judgmental and messed up. Ironically, as a married atheist I sin far less then I did as a single Christian. The entire in sin, out of sin game is a farce and ironically, you are no more ahead in that game than any other man.
I used to be a Christian, and even as a Christian I would have considered what you are saying now as highly offensive. I would walk onto Third Street in Santa Monica and some man with a bullhorn would scream and yell at a wall of Christian midwest tourists that they were all going to hell, because he ignorantly assumed that he was yelling at a sea of sinful Los Angelinos. Do you see where this contemptuous view of people, and even Christian people will take you? It's a dark place dude, and you need to focus more on your journey and live by example (like christ) rather than trying to turn people to god. The evangelical movement really missed the mark on that one. Remember, Christian is about being "christ-like". That means that the value of your life is judged on how you live your life.. it will not be judged by arbitrary goals that sacrifice how you live your life. Would you blow yourself up to convert 50 christians? I hope not, because that would defeat the whole point of being Christian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhiHZB9sRkI
The bible was written by the council of Nicean Creed when Constintine converted to christianity he had a vision in his visions it said in this how we conquer, there was never a fall of Rome they became christians and the vatican ruled most of the known world. Charlamagne also known as Charles the great beheaded 4500 men women and children for being baptized into christianity and still practicing their pagan beliefs. Theres plenty of blood on christian hands from the Americas, Australia, South Africa, to India you believe in a book written by man inspired by power not god because god is love. If you found Christ in your heart and you feel its the truth thats fine but remember your book says let he without sin cast the first stone are you without sin i see vanity and arrogance in your beliefs.
i have not judged anyone, i have only stated in this tread what has been taught by my Lord, and challenged others to evaluate thenselves. i will be the first to tell you that i am a sinner and i am no better then anyone else, but i have been redeemed throught my faith in Jesus Christ. im just one begger trying to help other other beggers find bread. if you dont think you need Jesus that is your right and you can choose to live anyway you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU5plRweaI0
I'm sorry JAnderson, but you know that's not true. I've lived that lifestyle and pulling the whole, "Well have fun in hell!" card is a common passive aggressive insult. Most of us know what the Bible says and your random re-iteration of that quote in the context of this thread is an insult. You were responding to the previous comment as a pat on the back with your buddy about how we're all wrong and you guys are right. And there you blatantly painted yourself as a true Christian while the world is filled with "fake" ones.
And you did just judge everyone. You just judged all non real christians as being incapable of traversing the narrow road to heaven. C'mon dude, don't play word games here, we all just read your comments. At least stand behind what you say.
God was just so much more prevalent back when people were primitive and confused. If he would make just one appearance now, his legitimacy would be unquestioned.. I mean he did appear to people all the time back in the day- and these people weren't crazy. People that claim to see him now though- totally crazy. Then the religious people go, "well, yea we're being tested.. dur". It's a sad rationalization for believing that uneducated people thousands of years ago actually experienced God and miracles and then at some point after the Bible was pieced together all signs ceased to occur ever again.
edit: Sorry, I guess we're still waiting. 2012 bringin the Jebus!
There's still some crazy crap happening these days. You won't hear me talking about that here. Yall will think I'm nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Gammel
i think what i said was "if you only think Jesus is Lord in your head, but your life does nothing to reflect your claim... then you need to stop and evaluate yourself. Only each person can know for sure where they are in there walk." in what part of that statement am i damning "non real christians" to hell? all i did was challenge others who would call themselves christians to evaluate their lives. Jesus is the way the truth and the life.
You know how to use the back button, the quote that you referenced, "Thats why Jesus said the road is narrow and few will find it..." is a classic comment used to show pride when a group of people disagree with you. You know this and you know what you are doing right now. I'm surprised this evasive double speak of yours isn't a sin. You're not deceiving anybody with your verbal high five that you guys just pulled.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAnderson
Wat does that article have to with jesus? ummmm I was pretty sure that mosses was the one who parted the red sea. Just sayin.
Sorry guys. Dan Brown told me that God isn't real.