This settles it Jesus was the son of God.

[Jason Hyatt]

I can't help but notice that the title of the thread is "This settles it..." Six pages in and it doesn't seem very settled to me. Seems like the whole "This settles it [I'm right, you're wrong impication]" is why people keep blowing each other up by the score and have for a very long time. How settled was it in 1998 when a protestant Irishman threw a hand grenade into a gathering of Catholic school girls? Mind you this was not a case of Muslim v. Christian. Not atheist v. Hindu. Not Pastafarian v. Swedish Lutheran. Protestant v. Catholic. Really? HAND GRENDADES AT SCHOOL GIRLS FOR FUCK'S SAKE?!? Because they're CATHOLIC?!? This is one of many, many, many reasons I eventually found solace in buddhism.

[Jason Hyatt]

I'm afraid it's not the same thing especially since Atheism is not a belief system. You don't need to believe in science of any kind to be an atheist. Atheism is just a label used to coral individuals who don't believe in god, nothing more. I've never made any claims about how our knowledge of the galaxy makes the idea of god irrelevant and nor do I believe that such a point would even be relevant to the existence or non-existence of a god.

I have not made such a decision on partial information. As a matter of fact, I haven't made a decision at all based upon quite a bit of information. That's what makes me an atheist.

Not trying to stir up any shit at all (see previous post) but what you seem more to be describing is agnositicism. "Theos" is Greek for god. The prefix "A-" means without. So "a-theism" is ANY system in which there is no god of any kind. "Gnosis" is greek for knowledge. So "a-gnostic" literally means "without knowledge" or more simply "I dunno". An agnostic is pretty much anyone who is of the opinion that, yeah, maybe there is more to the universe than what I can experience directly; maybe not. Agnostics run the spectrum from "I'm pretty sure there is no god of any kind" to "hmmm, eh, fuck it you never know."

[AJ Camacho]

I understand the confusion however I am technically an agnostic atheist. Other people in this thread would be agnostic theists (since they probably don't believe in opposing deities). You are implying that Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. Well, that statement isn't logically possible. How can you believe in a non belief?

Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity


Definition 2A, is what myself and most atheists would identify with. Definitions 1 and 2B are contemptuous uses of the word by theists, which is where the word itself has it's origins. It was initially used to by the Greeks to describe individuals who did not believe in the gods and was regarded as an insult.

The label of "atheist" is actually a contrivance designed to group non-believers into an artificial opposition group. It is much harder to argue with a logically minded individual who challenges and questions each and every religious claim that you make. It is much easier to group them, generalize their beliefs, and to construct an us versus them paradigm.

This has only gotten more convoluted recently with people like Richard Dawkins taking on the mantle of "Atheist" with a sort of antagonistic sense of pride. In reality though, some people just have personal standards of proof that most religions cannot account for.

[Yordan Rodriguez]

No shit? So these guys are having a pissing contest over nothing? LOL!

Everyone chill, we shall follow Moses now.

lmao

[Mike Noronowicz]

Jesus said " I am THE WAY THE TRUTH and THE LIFE no man comes to the Father BUT BY ME "

[Orlando Rosæ]

I'm afraid it's not the same thing especially since Atheism is not a belief system. You don't need to believe in science of any kind to be an atheist. Atheism is just a label used to coral individuals who don't believe in god, nothing more. I've never made any claims about how our knowledge of the galaxy makes the idea of god irrelevant and nor do I believe that such a point would even be relevant to the existence or non-existence of a god.

I have not made such a decision on partial information. As a matter of fact, I haven't made a decision at all based upon quite a bit of information. That's what makes me an atheist.

I'm not singling you out specifically. When I write they I mean they, not you. To me atheism is a belief system. If atheist isn't a belief system, then atheists should have No Opinion. Ive never met an atheist who at some point wasn't willing to try to belittle my personal beliefs. What is such a desire to make it personal based in? No belief system? One cannot base on an opinion without coming to some sort of conclusion one way or the other. And when I say we all make decisions based on partial information, I mean we do it in our everyday lives, whether it is buying a house, grappling, teaching, choosing a mate, driving a car, crossing the street, picking a major, finding a job, etc. We can never be sure about anything with 100% certainty. We do the best we can with the information before us.

[AJ Camacho]

I'm not singling you out specifically. When I write they I mean they, not you. To me atheism is a belief system. If atheist isn't a belief system, then atheists should have No Opinion. Ive never met an atheist who at some point wasn't willing to try to belittle my personal beliefs. What is such a desire to make it personal based in? No belief system? One cannot base on an opinion without coming to some sort of conclusion one way or the other. And when I say we all make decisions based on partial information, I mean we do it in our everyday lives, whether it is buying a house, grappling, teaching, choosing a mate, driving a car, crossing the street, picking a major, finding a job, etc. We can never be sure about anything with 100% certainty. We do the best we can with the information before us.

I appreciate you not making this a personal issue as that is my goal as well. It is common for many theists to view atheism as a belief system but it really isn't. Just because I am counter arguing against the points of a theist doesn't mean that I must have or claim to have any points of my own to replace theirs. When I am arguing against any religion my point is not to prove anything I think or believe. It is just to merely explain why I do not believe what they believe.

As for atheists belittling your beliefs. That is common, because it is easy to throw stones at glass houses when you are homeless and don't have a glass house to throw stones from.

[Orlando Rosæ]

BTW, my best friend is an agnostic. He acknowledges to possibility of both God and no god. And does not take a stand either way.

Some of us work very hard not to throw stones. I'm about as liberal as they get. I live by the Motto: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." And obviously no one perfectly righteous. I leave any sort of judgment or condemnation about the way people live their lives to God. I got my own crap to deal with. If any of my posts came off as judgmental, that was not my intent. I was just defending my personal beliefs. I hold no animosity toward anyone here.

[Jason Hyatt]

Jesus said " I am THE WAY THE TRUTH and THE LIFE no man comes to the Father BUT BY ME "

I knew a homeless guy who said the same thing. What's the difference?

[Jason Hyatt]

I understand the confusion however I am technically an agnostic atheist. Other people in this thread would be agnostic theists (since they probably don't believe in opposing deities). You are implying that Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. Well, that statement isn't logically possible. How can you believe in a non belief?

Definition of ATHEISM
1
archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2
a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity


Definition 2A, is what myself and most atheists would identify with. Definitions 1 and 2B are contemptuous uses of the word by theists, which is where the word itself has it's origins. It was initially used to by the Greeks to describe individuals who did not believe in the gods and was regarded as an insult.

The label of "atheist" is actually a contrivance designed to group non-believers into an artificial opposition group. It is much harder to argue with a logically minded individual who challenges and questions each and every religious claim that you make. It is much easier to group them, generalize their beliefs, and to construct an us versus them paradigm.

This has only gotten more convoluted recently with people like Richard Dawkins taking on the mantle of "Atheist" with a sort of antagonistic sense of pride. In reality though, some people just have personal standards of proof that most religions cannot account for.

Apologies; no implication intended. My intent was more to attempt finding a common defintion to use because -- as often seems to be the case with polarizing topics (see the Creation Science thread) -- we're not all using the same definitions. That leads to things like lumping people together with a label like "atheist" when those people may have very widely divergent degrees of belief or non-belief. I wholly agree that calling "atheism" a belief system is nonsensical. The prefix of the freakin' word means "without"! It simply makes no sense at all to call an atheist a "believer in no god". Sorry for the mix-up. I'm a little worn down from rolling on the Creation Science thread and my appetite for lengthy discussion is waning -- which leads to short phrases of sometimes confusing meaning.

I would also agree that there are many, many shades of agnosticism; some lean toward a theistic belief others quite the opposite. I started out a Lutheran, became quite the bible-thumping Baptist, found myself an agnostic, and came to call buddhism home. It was a very long process (as most lifetime pursuits are). I still don't particularly believe in the divine beyond my own experience. What buddhists mean by "divine" and what we typically mean in the West aren't often the same thing. I have little to no belief at all in what would typically be called "supernatural" especially as it applies to religion.