Since we have some Christian threads circulating, I figured I'd post a question....

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Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

Oh we can. We've got arguments and evidence and some of it isn't phrased by nutjobs. But it's boring and difficult. So boring and difficult, our own sheep aren't interested.

Walking through the cosmological argument is bad enough, walking through a formally expressed cosmological argument (which can get you around some of the logical objections to the way it has been historically expressed), a conversation in which you have to explain why an infinite causal chain cannot be traversed...is hard. And boring. You have better things to do. You want to talk for a long time about entropy and the expansion of the universe and blah blah blah? We can. You probably don't want to.

And I'm pretty sure if I did I'd get booted off this forum for proselytizing. And I can't say I'd blame the mods for doing so. I don't want people spamming this forum with propaganda from my local Church of Latterday Saints for crying out loud...

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It can die. Not because of your rambling statement telling me I couldn't understand your long, boring, 'correct' theology. I could care less about your jargon. I've read the pillars of Christian writing, you have nothing new to provide. Feel free to explain about the origin of the expanding universe and how it requires god. I'll gladly chime in. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Joshua Jarboe

That wasn't logic Derrick and no one here is fooled. You're insulting me instead of dialoging about ideas, engaging in parthian tactics expecting that at some point I'll either look foolish chasing you around or that I'll give up and look stupid. I've dealt with people like you before. You're a bully and you've got nothing to say. So back down.



I think most atheists have little knowledge of science and religion because I've talked to quite a number of them. And I think that most religious people aren't any better for the same reason. There's lots of posturing, lots of appeals to emotion, lots of insults (see above), very little intelligent discourse.

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It's not my fault If you feel bullied, thats usually the reaction when insecure people are faced with opposing views. Again, I grew up in church and was once on your side of this argument. One day you may be lucky enough to start using the " logical " part of your brain. I mean this is 10th planet jiu jitsu based from the works of Zacharia Sitchin & " Nibiru " isn't just some Cool Name that Eddie thought of. But I guess thats why your hear to " Save us hethens "

http://typo.graphr.net/images/owl-orly.jpg

I think 90% of all Christians aren't Christian at all

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Originally Posted by NelsonLucca

I think 90% of all Christians aren't Christian at all

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You would have found that to be "True" if you went to my church growing up. Often the most " Critical " are the most " Hypocritical " and it's funny how people who newly discover religion love to tell you about it. And those of us who have been there and done that are like, " Whatever dude "

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Originally Posted by NelsonLucca

I think 90% of all Christians aren't Christian at all

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NO doubt. I thought I was a Christian all my life until about 3 years ago. I was told I was a christian so I was. The problem with trying to find God is in America there is to much outside information flooding our brains on a regular basis so its hard to find out the "truth". I finally got a chance to separate myself for almost a year from american culture and outside influences and that is when I finally was able to find whatever it was I was looking for. Forget the answer, ask yourself if you're asking "God" the right questions.

Its easy to argue about whether there is a God or not. Its also easy to put different religions on blast. Its really, REALLY hard to find your own quiete place with a clear mind and find God yourself (or rather let him find you).

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Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme

You would have found that to be "True" if you went to my church growing up. Often the most " Critical " are the most " Hypocritical " and it's funny how people who newly discover religion love to tell you about it. And those of us who have been there and done that are like, " Whatever dude "

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True. But getting too high on our horses about how judgemental other people are is walking the line of hypocrisy pretty close. Seriously.

Jared, I'll send my best attempt at a cosmological argument to you privately. I can't imagine the flamewar it would start here. Oh, and I didn't say you couldn't understand it, that's downright insulting. I said you probably have better things to do. We'll see when you read it whether I'm right.

i see alot of excuses here about why someone don't believe or that they ''used to be a christian" i don't think they used to be , i think they realized they never believed in the first place.
other excuse i see is hypocrisy , many are calling christians hypocrites , some peoples faith and salvation is a work in progress , but i must ask the non believer how you living ? is your life right ???

It's ALL crap, every civilization since the beginning of time has had their retarded little rituals aimed @ trying to understand and control that which is beyond them. The arrogance that it takes to be aware of this fact and still be positive that your little cult has it right for sure this time is truly breath taking. If you were an all powerful being why would you give two shits what a bunch of ants were doing? I think Derrick's hypothesis is pretty likely actually...but who knows?

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Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme

Just the Idea that you refer to the energy of the universe as "HE" or "His" as if this energy has a "Physical Body" and a " Gender " and a " Ego " Reduces something this powerful down to a "Very Petty" level. The problem with modern religion is that it's drilled into you as a kid and your told not to ask question's. " I grew up in church I know " and this forces you to build a very strong set of " Mental Brick Walls " that cause you to "Get Angry" & " Defensive " and to run away from
Logic because your " Belief Systems " are being challenged. Just the fact that you posted this thread shows your still very "insecure" about "life" "religion" and the fear of "Not knowing"

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I'm not claiming to have the answers. Everything has holes. Everything is illuminated. I had a theology question for Christians asked out of idle curiousity.

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Originally Posted by Mike Noronowicz

i must ask the non believer how you living ? is your life right ???

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Facepalm...
If you need to believe that there is an invisible dude in the sky watching you 24/7 to make sure he doesn't have to burn you for eternity in order for you to not be a scum bag then you belong in a cult.
For me: Martial arts-->confidence-->peace/tranquility-->loss of(decrease in) ego=much better life and interactions with those around me. Now I'm all about putting positive energy out there and if that's gonna get me tortured for eternity then fudge it.
"If your doctrine can be defended on rational ground then it need not be taken on faith, if it can not be defended on rational ground then why would I believe it?"

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Originally Posted by Roofliss

Facepalm...
If you need to believe that there is an invisible dude in the sky watching you 24/7 to make sure he doesn't have to burn you for eternity in order for you to not be a scum bag then you belong in a cult.
For me: Martial arts-->confidence-->peace/tranquility-->loss of(decrease in) ego=much better life and interactions with those around me. Now I'm all about putting positive energy out there and if that's gonna get me tortured for eternity then fudge it.
"If your doctrine can be defended on rational ground then it need not be taken on faith, if it can not be defended on rational ground then why would I believe it?"

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this
couldnt say it better myself:)

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Originally Posted by Mike Noronowicz

i see alot of excuses here about why someone don't believe or that they ''used to be a christian" i don't think they used to be , i think they realized they never believed in the first place.
other excuse i see is hypocrisy , many are calling christians hypocrites , some peoples faith and salvation is a work in progress , but i must ask the non believer how you living ? is your life right ???

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let it go, " religion is the opposite path to enlightenment "

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Originally Posted by Roofliss

It's ALL crap, every civilization since the beginning of time has had their retarded little rituals aimed @ trying to understand and control that which is beyond them. The arrogance that it takes to be aware of this fact and still be positive that your little cult has it right for sure this time is truly breath taking. If you were an all powerful being why would you give two shits what a bunch of ants were doing? I think Derrick's hypothesis is pretty likely actually...but who knows?

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Heres someone who's on the right path to enlightenment

Echo chamber ftw. ;)

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Originally Posted by Roofliss

Facepalm...
If you need to believe that there is an invisible dude in the sky watching you 24/7 to make sure he doesn't have to burn you for eternity in order for you to not be a scum bag then you belong in a cult.
For me: Martial arts-->confidence-->peace/tranquility-->loss of(decrease in) ego=much better life and interactions with those around me. Now I'm all about putting positive energy out there and if that's gonna get me tortured for eternity then fudge it.
"If your doctrine can be defended on rational ground then it need not be taken on faith, if it can not be defended on rational ground then why would I believe it?"

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your spot on, seek richoussness and you'll be ok, you don't need religion for that

This physical life is all about our spiritual growth, And living a richouss life is the fastest path to enlightenment, Modern religions are often "counter productive" when seeking inner peace. And forcing religion on people in stead of letting them discover for them selves, actually does more to Hinder spiritual growth. I saw a Buddist Monk sit in the middle of the street out of protest and he set himself on "Fire" and burned to death without making a "Sound", Now tell me that dude wasn't on a different spiritual playing field. Thats not religion, thats "Meditation". I'm Still waiting on the "Pope" or "Eddie Long" to do the same, Oh! I forgot there to busy "protecting pedaphiles "

<sits back and yawns...

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Originally Posted by derrick ikwueme

Open your minds people, Be logical about this, Religion all starts from "Misunderstood Technology" of interstellar travelers. Thats why All major religions tell the same "Remixed" story. These so called "Angels" are flesh and blood Aliens, Just like "Cargo Cults" of World War 2. The Airforce would land on a remote pacific island, build a air strip, and give K rations to the natives Who have never seen this technology. And they saw us as "Gods" and when we left they built wooden plane replicas, in hopes that that would make us " Return " All religions have " Words To Live By" but never take that stuff literally. Because it's really just a Giant "UFO" story. And I grew up in church like most people, But " Logic " has taken over.

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John Frum Will Come!!!!!