Mouthguards

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Originally Posted by Joseph Hachey

Ouch! Whoever did that to you must've been a real jerk!

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* nudge nudge, wink wink *

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Originally Posted by ScottRay

Keep us posted kurzy, doc stitched ya up yet?

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All stitched up. Five stitches. S'all good.

i always wear a cup and mouthpiece. i'm too poor to get a fitted mouthpiece, but maybe when i'm rolling the cash like Passini i'll spring for one. as of now, it's just a pink tapout brand that i got from academy.

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Originally Posted by Peterm

I am obviously in a minority here but I find the use of if not insistence on mouth guards and cups entirely peculiar.

There is no culture of using mouthguards and cups in judo and wrestling and I am not aware following years of participation in both sports of injury to mouth or genitals being a particular problem even taking into account the aggressive encounters and frequent high impact collisions that occur.

As for making a mouth piece a mandatory requirement to roll, I find this totally bizarre. I am not aware of any such requirement in any BJJ school in Brazil or indeed any of the better BJJ schools I have visited in the US including Renzo's and Marcelo's.

Is there some strange aspect or feature of submission grappling which I am missing or is this simply an indication of a risk shy
modern society?

I may be old school but I think that most of you are going totally overboard in exaggerating the risks to your well being.

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you didn't use mouthguards where you wrestled? In central cali most guys did and if you had braces you had to. I believe that some schools make everyone wear them.

Im telling you, if you train at our gym without a mouth guard, theres a good chance your lips will be all puffy and tender or you'll get a cut. We're doing submission wrestling for mma but even without strikes while rolling when your going 100% for a long time things happen. Last time i forgot my mouthguard my coach told me i was bleeding between rolls, small cut lip. Time before puffy tender lips. Like I said before, I kneed the shit out of my instructor right on the jaw not long ago.

Zog says wear a mouthguard so you can't really argue with that.

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Originally Posted by ScottRay

Actually, past white belt: your cross faces control well but don't "grind", accidental elbow extremely rare, most chokes are clean or pressure won't get applied, your rolls will be more fluid and smooth, your training partners will be smoother and more advanced.

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Yep, I ALWAYS 'try' to roll super playful and keep it really technical unless the guy I am rolling with goes really hard then I may amp it up a little. Obviously pre comp we are all rolling pretty hard. However not so hard and reckless everybody is getting injured, making it so even the people rolling around us are in danger of a heel to the face or whatever. Training environments like that are non productive. Also how long you want to do jiu jitsu for? Me, as long as I am alive, hopefully until I am 90 years. That wont happen if you don't keep it playful.
My training partners are competing and getting medals at the world and national level so we must be doing something right over here.
:)

you quoted that like you agree with it then you say that when you're rolling with a guy that goes hard, up you step, it up and precomp you roll hard. Training environments where people are getting injured all the time went even discussed on this thread unless you include things that dont stop you from rolling. Were talking mashed lips, bruises and bumps not strained joints and concussions, although, according to zog if you don't wear a mouthpiece then you are risking conclusion. And yeah with no turney on the horizon you're gonna do more drilling and calmer rolling cause that how you advance your technical game, its just not the only aspect.

i dont know what scotts other grappling experience is but hes giving advice like hes higher than a white belt. A cross face can still grind depending on what else goes down while its on. Accidental blows of any kind are not common but happen (dont know why he picked elbows) chokes can be perfectly clean but slipping them you can get pressure on your mouth.

Don't know who runs your hotbox but I already roll with higher levels guys and there are a shit load of medals on the wall so you're not dropping any knowledge here. I fucked up saying anyone should roll differently than they do already, learn from my mistake and have some humility.

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Originally Posted by Aaron Gustaveson

you quoted that like you agree with it then you say that when you're rolling with a guy that goes hard, up you step, it up and precomp you roll hard. Training environments where people are getting injured all the time went even discussed on this thread unless you include things that dont stop you from rolling. Were talking mashed lips, bruises and bumps not strained joints and concussions, although, according to zog if you don't wear a mouthpiece then you are risking conclusion. And yeah with no turney on the horizon you're gonna do more drilling and calmer rolling cause that how you advance your technical game, its just not the only aspect.

i dont know what scotts other grappling experience is but hes giving advice like hes higher than a white belt. A cross face can still grind depending on what else goes down while its on. Accidental blows of any kind are not common but happen (dont know why he picked elbows) chokes can be perfectly clean but slipping them you can get pressure on your mouth.

Don't know who runs your hotbox but I already roll with higher levels guys and there are a shit load of medals on the wall so you're not dropping any knowledge here. I fucked up saying anyone should roll differently than they do already, learn from my mistake and have some humility.

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White belts can give advice to you know. He may have been training 6+ years but never done a grading for all we know. Why are you so concerned? Can't you take tips and advice from a fellow white belt? Strange. I have had much higher belts than me (even when I was a white belt) ask me how I do certain things in training etc. They didn't seem to mind, no ego, and they took what I said on board.
Also, we are talking about protective equipment and injuries in training due to Kurzy getting injured in training, so of course we are going to talk about training environments, it is the evolution of the conversation in this thread. So so sorry I didn't keep it perfectly on topic for you! LOL

goddamn it! i'm doing it again. I have a life long struggle with being a real dick. Im gonna try to not make a post for a few weeks. a guy with no belt shouldn't have this much to say.

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Originally Posted by Sam Sales

White belts can give advice to you know. He may have been training 6+ years but never done a grading for all we know. Why are you so concerned? Can't you take tips and advice from a fellow white belt? Strange. I have had much higher belts than me (even when I was a white belt) ask me how I do certain things in training etc. They didn't seem to mind, no ego, and they took what I said on board.
Also, we are talking about protective equipment and injuries in training due to Kurzy getting injured in training, so of course we are going to talk about training environments, it is the evolution of the conversation in this thread. So so sorry I didn't keep it perfectly on topic for you! LOL

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you confusing the part of my post that was addressed to you with the part toward scottray. my fault for the bad post. i didn't see your before i posted the one above.

White belts can give advice yes. most appropriately when asked as in your example. He wasn't giving advice he was trying to drop knowledge as if i was wrong. I dont see the topic of the thread having evolved as you do but, oh well.

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Originally Posted by Sam Sales

Why are you so concerned? Can't you take tips and advice from a fellow white belt?

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what do you mean so concerned? what made you think i was concerned or especially concerned? i can take tips/advice from anyone, if its good. I thought it was kind of a custom that you're supposed to get a blue before you teach though.

I am pretty sure Scott is a blue anyway (bjj) , he just didn't want to change his avvy until he had been ranked by a 10p instructor. Which is what I also did. Luckily for me it was the day after. :)

Aaron,

What happens in central Cali as far as wrestling is concerned is really an anomaly when looking at the rest of the world.

I assume that the fear of litigation in the US drives the need to be extra cautious but there are thousands of wrestling clubs throughout Russia, Iran and central Europe where mouthgards let alone cups are not the norm. Judo in Japan can be rough but cups and mouthpieces are not worn.

I am not sure what it is about your practice that involves such a high risk of injury and makes the wearing of protection. This is simply not my experience of Judo, wrestling or BJJ where as I said you might anticipate that the danger from high impact collisions is greater.

Zog is of course highly respected but his views are not in line with practices adopted at leading grappling schools -whether judo, wrestling or BJJ - to the best of my knowledge.