Baratoplata? Am I late?

http://youtu.be/oodhcznJx9o

Looks like a reverse bicep slicer....and it looks awesome! Anyone play this game? Looks like a fun sub to have for guys who like to arm crush.

Looks like it hurts. Gonna have to research this

It's just an arm crush. This is my game. I hit my duda this way with the foot on the hip and the figure 4. I hit this one from all over the place. :)

Looks Nice

It's never too late!

I looked into this awhile back.
Didn't quite feel like it was game changer.

But his DVD is due out August 16th of this year.

I always called it a Duda. It's just an arm crush. Sean Applegate is the man with arm crushes. He knows one from pretty much anywhere..sneaky ones or just your basic from spiderweb. I've gotten hit with this before and have played it myself. I need to get back on tht..I just don't train a lot of arm crushes/calf crushes bc of competing and being a white belt..not usually allowed. But either way a BA move. :)

I second that Tori. Sean is a killer with those arm crushes.

I'm just thankful it wasn't the swells choke/logo/Frodo Plata thing again... Yep, Duda's were in the original book. Duda + swim move is legit as well and Eddie has showed that before.

I'm anxious to see this instructional. He's nailed several of these in competition. I want his secrets.

It's not an arm crush. It put medial pressure on the shoulder. Think Kimura/Omoplata pressure. Unless that's what you guys mean by arm crush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04YWDu-2wmY

Kinda interesting. From the duda position but its a shoulder lock instead of a slicer/crush. I might play with this, as the duda is awesome but if you can lock the shoulder from there..hmm

Thanks for the video. It looks very very cool.

If you do your duda with the lock on the hip side (I do). Then the shoulder lock is there as well. It's not just a crush, but the crush is there. It's a combination of both. Still just an arm crush set up though :)

Also in the video above, he doesn't close his legs. In my experience, no gi especially, guys immediately try to posture and will pull the arm out. Closing it off for the crush is crucial in controlling posture.

Maybe he has some new details on how to control your opponent from here. I'm excited to see this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

Also in the video above, he doesn't close his legs. In my experience, no gi especially, guys immediately try to posture and will pull the arm out. Closing it off for the crush is crucial in controlling posture.

Maybe he has some new details on how to control your opponent from here. I'm excited to see this.

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Ya, this is what interested me, I noticed he wasn't clamping down to slice on the duda. This seems to be a shoulder lock. Very interesting, im gonna play with it tonight. I too am wondering what keeps the posture down? Reminds me of a Kurinnoy shoulder lock but from a duda position. It attacks the should with the really weird angle. I dunno how legit the move is gonna be tho... that posture thing is a killer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottRay

Ya, this is what interested me, I noticed he wasn't clamping down to slice on the duda. This seems to be a shoulder lock. Very interesting, im gonna play with it tonight. I too am wondering what keeps the posture down? Reminds me of a Kurinnoy shoulder lock but from a duda position. It attacks the should with the really weird angle. I dunno how legit the move is gonna be tho... that posture thing is a killer.

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This is my game, so I'm very interested to see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottRay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04YWDu-2wmY

Kinda interesting. From the duda position but its a shoulder lock instead of a slicer/crush. I might play with this, as the duda is awesome but if you can lock the shoulder from there..hmm

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I like it. Thanks for posting this ScottRay. That OP video made it seem like a Duda without the leg figure four so this video cleared that up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottRay

Ya, this is what interested me, I noticed he wasn't clamping down to slice on the duda. This seems to be a shoulder lock. Very interesting, im gonna play with it tonight. I too am wondering what keeps the posture down? Reminds me of a Kurinnoy shoulder lock but from a duda position. It attacks the should with the really weird angle. I dunno how legit the move is gonna be tho... that posture thing is a killer.

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I'd say if he's hitting it on black belts and in MMA, it's legit.

Looks like fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

Also in the video above, he doesn't close his legs. In my experience, no gi especially, guys immediately try to posture and will pull the arm out. Closing it off for the crush is crucial in controlling posture.

Maybe he has some new details on how to control your opponent from here. I'm excited to see this.

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The little I played with this tonight, the arm is pretty wrapped up. It's really tight if they roll you from from mount and doesn't take much rotation to get the tap. Pretty legit. I'm now in love with this.

I played with it too. Seems pretty nasty. I really do like it. Lots of moves do though at first, but you never know. He's hitting in mma and on black belts...seems as if done right, its legit. Im gonna continue to play with it in hopes of knowing for sure. Im always a beg skeptic.

I like that its a set up from mount. I only recently started getting confident in the mount so its good to have more options. Gonna rep it out and look for it during free rolls to really decide if it goes into the arsenal.

*big

I think I love it

Looks cool. Defo not same as the duda the way he shows it in the second video.

Anymore input on this?

looks like a reverse monoplata to me

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jonrivello

looks like a reverse monoplata to me

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It feels very similar to the monoplata

I played with it some more. I tried it triangling the legs, it takes away the range of motion needed to attack the shoulder. The posture is controlled with angle from being under him and using your deep hook for the same job your leg does in an omoplata, or like the ice-pick really. Im starting to like it, but I still wanna play with it more. Im always skeptical until its a staple move. Sure would be nice to have more than one sub from there...

Personally, I LOVE slicers. I use them all the time. Ive also seen them injure folks before: Busted knees, or broken shins or forearms, muscle damage, etc.. With that said, historically slicers have proven to be very unreliable in competition. This is a generalization, as i just stated a good slicer and injure someone. I bet sean applegate can slice your arm right in two. But generally speaking, shoulder locks fairly high reliability vs slicers which have some of the lowest reliability. For the avg guy, a shoulder lock is usually a much safer bet, especially in a competition.

Were you able to switch back and forth between the Duda and Barata? I assume if ones not working you can switch relatively easily.

I was able to switch back and forth fairly easily, He almost does it for you, as the angle for them is opposite. That farside underhook is very important to keeping the shoulder lock angle on certain body types. Tiny guys can out pommel you there and the big guys pressure, in either of which kinda hand you the duda. If they angle away and "unstack" their shoulder from on top of their own wrist (duda angle) then untraingle the legs and angle back under the for shoulder lock. Cool thing is i dont know if the guard has got passed once trying this stuff. The angle for him to pass is the angle needed for the sub. You would hafta pass over the foot-on-hip side I guess. It seemed easier to get than the duda, but im no expert, especially on the duda. But the deep hook arm doesnt need to be in his elbow very deep to do the shoulder lock. Again, I wanna analyze it much more before I got off saying its wonderful and reliable.

Looks like you're on the right track. Have you hit it in a free roll or repping technique?

When you hit your duda, you can triangle to the body side and place your top foot on his hip. This gives you the crush as well as the shoulder lock. It works a lot like muddy waters in that they can't correct the angle because of your foot on the hip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

When you hit your duda, you can triangle to the body side and place your top foot on his hip. This gives you the crush as well as the shoulder lock. It works a lot like muddy waters in that they can't correct the angle because of your foot on the hip.

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You must be a master of the position if you can get both with the same angle. I find it impossible to get the shoulder lock when I triangle the legs, even repping. I feel like I must angle up under him, its what controls the posture and torques the shoulder.
Muddy waters has a foot on the hip? Am I missing something?

I believe he means like in Muddy Water you're compromising their base to where defending is much more difficult. The stiff arm from the Muddy Waters is the same as the foot on the hip for Barataplata.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sean applegate

When you hit your duda, you can triangle to the body side and place your top foot on his hip. This gives you the crush as well as the shoulder lock. It works a lot like muddy waters in that they can't correct the angle because of your foot on the hip.

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I just cant picture being able to rotate that way to get the shoulder lock. Like the angle seems off. If you start to turn the other way, I could see the drowning Duda (If you have it locked in from bottom) or just finishing the Duda from mount. I'll have to try it out tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brent Smith

I believe he means like in Muddy Water you're compromising their base to where defending is much more difficult. The stiff arm from the Muddy Waters is the same as the foot on the hip for Barataplata.



I just cant picture being able to rotate that way to get the shoulder lock. Like the angle seems off. If you start to turn the other way, I could see the drowning Duda (If you have it locked in from bottom) or just finishing the Duda from mount. I'll have to try it out tomorrow.

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Thanks for clearing that up Brent. That's what I meant. The foot kills his escape angle.

Ah yes. Ok cool I as like "what! I've been screwing up muddy waters this whole time!" Lol

so i havnt been able to try this out yet, but im just wondering if it matters which arm you use to slice. makes me think about armbars and jiu claw that if you get the outside arm to slice you could use to other arm to hook or control etc.as far as i can tell from the video, if you used the other arm then you could easily go from mounted armbar, spider web etc and jsut lean forward and move your arm to his other elbow and sit on his arm. the other arm is wrapped around the leg or something so he cant bridge as easily.

as i said, havnt tried it, dunno if it would help or hinder. ill try it asap and see what happens.

Duda!!

Tussa, the uke in the instructional, and I rolled this weekend. He used it when the guy defends the armbar. Worked great