Thoughts on being thin/slender vs. muscular in jiu jitsu

I'm sure this topic has been brought up in a thread before.....many times...especially about size. I know it usually comes down to flexibity, repetition, talent, etc. but I was hoping to get opinions on how people perceive being skinny and maybe a little bit muscular compared to someone who is shredded and big when doing jiu jitsu. It seems to me that people who are skinnier or slim like eddie bravo and don't have much muscle mass have better technique and it's easier for flexibility. Do any of you find an advantage to being really muscular besides having a good base for wrestling and muscling/powerhousing moves on people? and i'm mainly talking about flexibility, guard and technique. are there many people who are muscular that don't always wind up on top and have a sick game like rousimar palhares?? he is one of the only ones to me that looks like a gorilla and just has sick technique. i could note people that are names and fighters like werdum and palahares like i did but was wondering if anyone on the forum has any insight (those guys are fighters too i'm speaking soley for jitsu). I feel i'm pretty muscular and focus on lifting weights and cardio to get big but stay in condition a lot but was wondering if it would be more of an advantage for technique to just be slim to help with flexibility, stretching and obviously endurance would come into play...you know having that "runners" type of body to have a great jiu jitsu game for amplified techniques. thoughts? has anyone ever transitioned from being skinny doing jiu jitsu to/from being muscular (still in shape) and noticed a difference in how they compete/practice?

Bigger is always better

It never hurts to have attributes. Strength, power, aerobic and anaerobic cardio, flexibility, timing, sensitivity etc...If you're going to compete, just figure out what the best weight class is for you and be the most conditioned guy you can be for that division.

I think the only possible disadvantages of getting big would be that it would be a time investment, but its something that still pays off. As long as you still drill and make an effort to get better technically i see no harm in get ripped

I've gotten completely dominated by people of many bodytypes... it's all about knowing what's best for you... that being said, if the tops of all weight classes fought each other, heavyweights would likely win lol.

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Originally Posted by prowess

if the tops of all weight classes fought each other, heavyweights would likely win lol.

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+1
/agree

much agreed. how often are the winners of absolutes smaller.

I am completely the smaller guy in almost every sparring session, but my lankiness and flexibility are actually a godsend sometimes.

It really only matters how dedicated you are, and how much you are in love with jiu jitsu. It's corny to say, but look at the gracie family...or the modern day Eddie Bravo or Marcelo Garcia.

I love being lanky, and honestly try to stretch over lifting weights.

Look at it this way: Which is more impressive? Gogoplata from Invisible Collar.....or ude garame from side control.

Long legs are a mo fo however.

Why not not both, very muscular thin people are all over the place and typically come from sports like gymnastics and parkour. They have absurd amounts of explosive strength that they don't have to try for.

Of 2 people with equal skill, the bigger stronger one will likely win most of the time. Each body type has it's own sets of pros and cons. This is irrelevant in finding the weight best suited for YOU to compete in though. Just remember all that time trying to push weights to the ceiling is probably not going to get you out of bottom side, but will put you up a weight class. I just train jiu jitsu, boxing/muai thai, and mma, no weights. I let my body develop as much as it wants for the specific training it receives. I train too much to be lifting weights when not actually at the gym, lifting weights has honestly become wasted carbs in my opinion. Others may disagree, probably will but it has worked for me thus far. I am your prototypical runners type though, ran cross country and track all through high school. I smash big muscle dudes all the time, but it's because im significantly better. If they were my skill, I probably wouldn't wanna roll.

For you guys worried about putting on weight while getting stronger take a look at this. That some concern is also a big one in gymnastics, but strength is not built through high weight, it's built through high resistance and anyone can do that with their body.

http://www.dragondoor.com/articles/b...g/default.aspx

Honestly im gonna say this. I think georges can beat any champ out their. Only perwon he cant beat is brock. Gso can beat anderson with wrestling. He can beat jones with wrestling. Hes got the jiu jitsu, hes got the striking. And he can probably outwrestle cain. No joke!

Will tech go out the window if you're 3 times stronger then someone.. yeah you'll probably lose some.. and whenever I go against someone thats much bigger and stronger I've had to try and think about a way to use it against them.. so tech does become the priority. But you don't compete against people that are much smaller/bigger. Just maximize your strength for your weight class..

Like zoriaz said the only negative is the time invested... my interpretation of that is the downtime when you're trying to peak for the next weight class up..

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Originally Posted by Eric Martinez

much agreed. how often are the winners of absolutes smaller.

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caio terra

I don't think either body type is going to make you significantly better or worse in terms of technique or flexibility, but I do think that strength pays off against wrestlers. If they're gameplan is to win on takedown points, they'll try to explode back to their feet whenever you wind up on top, which can be frustrating unless you're able to (a) submit them from the bottom or (b) bully them from the top.

Im skinny as hell. 160 something pounds. Iv always been a damn wimp my whole life. so i have to make up for this weakness by having A. Good cardio from running B. having tricks and unusual transitions and positions, C. having a good guard D. being flexible. but strong guys are hard to mess with true indeed.

I think it's good to have strength, but not at the sacrifice of flexibility. I do circuits with higher reps and lower weights and stretch a lot. Better technique will beat strength, but if you only rely on technique, what happens when the stronger guy learns the techniques?

this happens:

http://thefightworkspodcast.com/imag...-popovitch.jpg

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Originally Posted by Don Blankenship

Im skinny as hell. 160 something pounds. Iv always been a damn wimp my whole life. so i have to make up for this weakness by having A. Good cardio from running B. having tricks and unusual transitions and positions, C. having a good guard D. being flexible. but strong guys are hard to mess with true indeed.

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This is the reason why you see more technical, flexible smaller guys than larger guys. You automatically put more emphasis on what you need to make up for your deficiencys. I am larger than most people at my gym and I have been told that It is a good idea for me to develop a sick top game since I end up there more often than my back. When I endup on the bottom I get held on side mount by a technical 160 pounder all day long though since I have very little practice on that area. Which reminds me, I should really pay attention my bottom game, it sucks worse than my top game.

Oh and it is probably gonna take me a fairly large amount of time to develop that sick top game also :)

135 soaked with my clothes on and theres nothing more fun than submitting bigger stronger people or at least staying one step ahead of them.

@ brent: if ur saying gsp will not only out wrestle but out strike bones jones, & cain.... you must have not seen their last couple fights, those fuckers are huge W/ technique @ no strangers to wrestling. Gsp gotta get past shields aaaaaaaaaand that shit rite there aint easy.....jus sayin

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Originally Posted by Derrick Johnson

@ brent: if ur saying gsp will not only out wrestle but out strike bones jones, & cain.... you must have not seen their last couple fights, those fuckers are huge W/ technique @ no strangers to wrestling. Gsp gotta get past shields aaaaaaaaaand that shit rite there aint easy.....jus sayin

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Yeah gsp would get crushed by jones & cain the size is way too much to give up. As far as the gsp/shields fight... are you serious... Gsp is going to jabathon all over again.. shields striking is terrible. The only chance he has is taking Gsp down and dragging it out. I really see no way for shields to actually win.. he doesn't even have a punchers chance lol. Only thing that makes me interested in this fight is that I want to see if shields gasses again. I've been wrong before... but seriously.. is there anyone that thinks shields even has a shot?!?

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Originally Posted by prowess

I've gotten completely dominated by people of many bodytypes... it's all about knowing what's best for you... that being said, if the tops of all weight classes fought each other, heavyweights would likely win lol.

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Tell that to caio terra.

I know I've been forced into having better, tighter technique because when it comes down to strength vs strength ill lose most the time. But I think if you're big and muscular you can still have good technique. Doesn't strength diminish flexibility though? That would be awesome to see a meathead looking guy double bagging

I know your example was for mma but my mind went right to jiu jitsu

strength does not diminish flexibility alot of sumo wrestlers are very flexible and alot of body builders also work on flexibility so they can hit the full range of motion in weight lifting which makes their weight training session more effective

Also, I've said this before, but there is no law that links strength and muscle mass. It's all in how you work out. It's possible to be amazingly, explosively strong yet still pull double lotus with no problem.

who says you have to be big? strength > size imo.

I'd rather be 170 and deadlifting 550 than 230 deadlifting 580

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Originally Posted by Hax

I think it's good to have strength, but not at the sacrifice of flexibility. I do circuits with higher reps and lower weights and stretch a lot. Better technique will beat strength, but if you only rely on technique, what happens when the stronger guy learns the techniques?

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You're training like a bodybuilder. You're going to gain size without much strength, which will sacrifice flexibility if you aren't careful. Train for power.

I use big man JJ a lot, though because of it my bottom game is not on par with my top game (I'm working on it! lol) I've seen a lot of smaller guys with a SICK bottom game though their top game is horrid. I find my big man style works really well, I'm quick enough to hang with the advanced smaller guys and strong enough to hang with the bigger advanced guys. My only down fall is my legs are to short to be sneaky with triangles and armbars, but my scissor sweep and flower are strong because of my big legs. So it all depends on the person. I thought about losing some weight and getting a little smaller, but I would have to relearn my entire game.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Carey

You're training like a bodybuilder. You're going to gain size without much strength, which will sacrifice flexibility if you aren't careful. Train for power.

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What are your big 3 power training exercises Patrick?

Dead, Squat and bench

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Originally Posted by Kiko

What are your big 3 power training exercises Patrick?

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Squat, Standing overhead press, Deadlift and Clean and Jerk

so 4 really.

But I would do more than just 4 lifts, I like doing barbell glute bridges (makes fucking and bridging way easier) and other stuff

Planche, Front Levers, Glute Ham Raises

you make it sound like a bad thing to train like a bodybuilder, a lot of power lifters also do a lot of bodybuilder workouts to supplement their regular workout. How many serious bodybuilders do you see doing low weight? the only thing they tend to miss is stabilizer muscle training because they don't need it, but that is easily fixed.

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Originally Posted by flying_monkey

you make it sound like a bad thing to train like a bodybuilder, a lot of power lifters also do a lot of bodybuilder workouts to supplement their regular workout. How many serious bodybuilders do you see doing low weight? the only thing they tend to miss is stabilizer muscle training because they don't need it, but that is easily fixed.

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Hypertrophy training is not for combat sports. Not trying to sound like a dick here, but

powerlifting and bodybuilding are all about lifting external loads. in jj, that tires you out. you don't want to move them; you want to move your own body around them. you need to have good explosive strength which helps, but most of the time you should be spent working your own body in plyometric circuits. If anything gymnastic training is better. It is all about being ridiculously strong with as low body weight as possible. Bodybuilding is about being jacked, powerlifting is about lifting a fuck load *at any cost to your body weight*

I'd have to agree with Patrick for the most part. But really, unless we're top top top level athletes...it all helps.