What is the Puppet Master?

[ScottRay]

Lots of moves can appear to be great on the surface, but have deeper issues. First thing is it takes fundamental mistakes and a very low, to no awareness inside someone's guard to get put in it.. Second, is there is so much better options available, like the back, or a traditional triangle.
Kinda like the youngsters gogo finish a week or so ago. No offense to anybody, but I have worked with both of theses moves extensively in the past. And, as zog said, they did not pass the test. I wouldn't have spoke up about the gogo finish (or any move) if I hadn't spent hours on the move... But I got flamed hard for speaking up being a "white belt". This time, with the puppet master, I kept my comment to a simple question that extracted a publicly accepted answer from a higher rank. I'm getting better at this forum stuff...

[Brent Smith]

Lol this is the internet you can get flamed for nothing and it shouldn't stop you from talking. The majority of us wont meet you anyways.
I don't know that I agree that it would take low awareness to be put in it. Matt Horwich put Dan Miller, a couple times, in the Rubix Cube in their UFC fight. That would have been one step away from putting him in the Puppet Master and the Rubix Cube is the part of this move that makes the set up pretty difficult. I do agree that the triangle would be a much easier option and why not just finish it with a tried and true submission. I can label my triangles as good but what if I go for triangles and they just plain suck or guys get out of them more often than not. I'm not going to go for that option. I think its cool to have a different option to go to. I don't go constantly for the Puppet Master but if I'm having trouble getting the RNC from the back Ill throw up something unorthodox, like when I was rolling with Andy it played out to my favor. He may only be a white belt, hes not a white belt skill wise, but hes tough as nails and wont just tap to anything and I got the tap.
I think the videos got put up well before they should have. Way before the moves have been polished. I do think that there's something of worth with the position. Maybe not all of it from the videos but there's something, at least for me, worth looking into.

[Greg W]

Mixed feelings on this one. Nothing I hit, ever, but I have shown it in class for people to be aware of it and to decide for themselves if it is for them. One guy, our super flexible rubber guard player, has rubbix cube to sweep in his arsenal. Not so much the puppet master, but he can. At first, if I was sloppy with that elbow he would hook quickly with his foot from behind. Now I keep that elbow tight and he hasn't hit it on me in a long time. I still see him use it against newer people on occasion. Him having the threat of it helped me tighten up my in guard game, even if it was a small improvement, I'll take it. So to try and help with the original question, improve your posture, and keep your elbows tight to your ribs, never let your elbow stick out back, and defend that wrist control like mad so he doesn't push it out for you. The frequency of him doing it to you will be greatly reduced.

[Griffin Lambert]

Lol this is the internet you can get flamed for nothing and it shouldn't stop you from talking. The majority of us wont meet you anyways.
I don't know that I agree that it would take low awareness to be put in it. Matt Horwich put Dan Miller, a couple times, in the Rubix Cube in their UFC fight. That would have been one step away from putting him in the Puppet Master and the Rubix Cube is the part of this move that makes the set up pretty difficult. I do agree that the triangle would be a much easier option and why not just finish it with a tried and true submission. I can label my triangles as good but what if I go for triangles and they just plain suck or guys get out of them more often than not. I'm not going to go for that option. I think its cool to have a different option to go to. I don't go constantly for the Puppet Master but if I'm having trouble getting the RNC from the back Ill throw up something unorthodox, like when I was rolling with Andy it played out to my favor. He may only be a white belt, hes not a white belt skill wise, but hes tough as nails and wont just tap to anything and I got the tap.
I think the videos got put up well before they should have. Way before the moves have been polished. I do think that there's something of worth with the position. Maybe not all of it from the videos but there's something, at least for me, worth looking into.

Even if it wouldn't work at a high level, I still enjoy doing the puppet master from time to time. The first time you get someone in it they're always like what the fuck was that!

[ScottRay]

ninja-plata

[Brent Smith]

Even if it wouldn't work at a high level, I still enjoy doing the puppet master from time to time. The first time you get someone in it they're always like what the fuck was that!

Thats the most common reaction I get lol.

[Brent Smith]

ninja-plata

That choke sucks to be put in too.

[bobby rivers]

I catch the rubix even on good guys from time to time still. It's more their fuck-up than my skill, I just take it(as opposed to lookin for it). I rarely catch it more than twice though. Once they've been caught, it's easy to avoid.

Pretty much what Greg said.

[Brian Debes]

ninja-plata

I saw the “ninja-plata” LONG before this puppet stuff so that’s what I’ll be calling it if I ever get to it frequently. As a side note, there is now a move called the “meat bagger” that is an improved version of the above because you are double bagging the shin side of the pyramid for extra power and security (and at a slightly different angle as its done off a kung fu move attempt). Eddie was showing it last year when I was down there. He doesn’t go ninja-plata off of it, but you could J

[Brent Smith]

I saw the “ninja-plata” LONG before this puppet stuff so that’s what I’ll be calling it if I ever get to it frequently. As a side note, there is now a move called the “meat bagger” that is an improved version of the above because you are double bagging the shin side of the pyramid for extra power and security (and at a slightly different angle as its done off a kung fu move attempt). Eddie was showing it last year when I was down there. He doesn’t go ninja-plata off of it, but you could J

I remember something about a Meat Bagger but I really cant recall what it is.