Denny Prokopos Vs Nathan Orchard EBI-2 Finals

[Jason Mallory]

How many matches went to overtime in EBI 2 ?

[Mike Nall]

Damn this is very disappointing. So this is the last potentially big refuge besides Metamoris where people can go to see legit sub only matches on a big platform (literally) and now we find out that it's not much different than closing out with a teammate? Granted, Orchard wasn't aware, but it almost feels like a "work" or "worked match" instead of a real one.

Denny is basically Eddie's top student right? I wonder how Eddie feels about this, assuming this thread doesn't get deleted.

This is actually straight up bizarre.

[DENNY PROKOPOS]

Denny did try to tap me in ot just not in the regulation round. But he definitely tried to tap.

He is 100% RIGHT

[Apperz]

I tried to tap Orchard in OT, just not in regulation.

In any sport you will have people who look at the rules and try to win based on them. Seems Denny looked at the rules and decided to guarantee a win he wanted to play it safe and head to overtime. It is up to the organisers to create the conditions where certain things cannot happen. All Denny has done is shown that a return to the drawing board is needed if Eddie is looking to ensure that someone actively hunts for a sub (personally, I don't think it is possible unless you do Metamoris style matches where you draw if you don't get a tap).

That said, it is a shame that the bubble has burst, because I'd been raving to friends about this JJ competition that was more enjoyable than UFC and where subs are left-right and centre.

The doors this opens up are dangerous: keep away from the deck and get a draw. Practice your deadzones until you are untappable and have some mad escapes then work on holding like a motha fakarrr. Part 1 of that equation is cool, Part 2 could kill EBI.

[Mike Nall]

In any sport you will have people who look at the rules and try to win based on them. Seems Denny looked at the rules and decided his best chance to guarantee a win was in OT so played with OT in mind. It is up to the organisers to create the conditions where certain things cannot happen. All Denny has done is shown that a return to the drawing board is needed if Eddie is looking to ensure that someone actively hunts for a sub (personally, I don't think it is possible unless you do Metamoris style matches where you draw if you don't get a tap).

The best way IMO to guarantee active sub hunting for everyone is to

1. Give everyone a small amount of money for competing
2. Give a larger bonus to anyone that gets a sub
3. Give a smaller bonus to the person that GETS SUBBED

This way, the draw or no sub outcome is the worst outcome, because both competitors make the least money. By giving more money to the competitor that gets the sub, it encourages the finish, but then you get into situations where the defender still might be stuck in a bad spot and just hang on for dear life and not move or attempt to escape, so that they don't get finished. THAT IS WHY you give bonus money to the guy that gets subbed also, because if he's in spiderweb, or locked in a front headlock, he won't be as likely to hang on for dear life, because if he tries to explode out and escape that armbar or guillotine to force the action, and gets tapped anyways, then he's also going to get some bonus money for making it exciting.

Financial incentives are the best incentives for anything in life. We all pretty much know this. I think this is the ideal structure for trying to get the most action out of everyone involved. Metamoris should do it as well.

[Jason Mallory]

The best thing for EBI in my opinion is one weight class per event, sub only with no time limit. That way there is no gaming the rules.

[Apperz]

The best thing for EBI in my opinion is one weight class per event, sub only with no time limit. That way there is no gaming the rules.

Sounds great in theory, but you will, one day, get someone who has incredible cardio and thinks 'if I can make this match last 30 minutes then the other guy will be tired and I will tap him'. It's one of those unwinnable battles that Eddie has to fight I guess.

To be fair, the EBI - until this - was shouted about and remarked upon, so I don't see Denny's tactic being all that common or putting too many people off - was still a great match.

The other option could be to keep the rules as they are but allow only one competitor per team - so no 10p vs 10p...

[Bryan Gore]

In any sport you will have people who look at the rules and try to win based on them. Seems Denny looked at the rules and decided to guarantee a win he wanted to play safe and heard to overtime (so played with OT in mind). It is up to the organisers to create the conditions where certain things cannot happen. All Denny has done is shown that a return to the drawing board is needed if Eddie is looking to ensure that someone actively hunts for a sub (personally, I don't think it is possible unless you do Metamoris style matches where you draw if you don't get a tap).

Going by what he said in his original post, it doesn't seem like he was doing it to play it safe, but because he thought for Orchard it wouldn't be as bad to lose in overtime. Although it isn't very nice to do that and then tell everybody you sandbagged to avoid publicly executing a guy you like so much. That kind of negates any nice (yet unintentionally disrespectful and condescending) intentions.

If it was just what he considered to be the strategy that gave him the best chance to win I'd agree with you mostly, but still think it a bit odd that it was one of Eddie's own guys who subverted the spirit of the whole event.

[Bryan Gore]

I can already hear the "I told you so" from Rose Gracie.

[Jason Mallory]

Sounds great in theory, but you will, one day, get someone who has incredible cardio and thinks 'if I can make this match last 30 minutes then the other guy will be tired and I will tap him'. It's one of those unwinnable battles that Eddie has to fight I guess.

To be fair, the EBI - until this - was shouted about and remarked upon, so I don't see Denny's tactic being all that common or putting too many people off - was still a great match.

The other option could be to keep the rules as they are but allow only one competitor per team - so no 10p vs 10p...

There's nothing wrong with a 30 minute match as long as there is action. I remember the brown belt kumite that Lloyd Irvin put together with Keenan. Those were some great matches.

I think Eddie's point with EBI was for it to be exciting in order to get it on TV. I think that if Eddie made EBI sub only, no time limit with only one weight class and sold it pay per view it would continue to be a success.

I like the idea of only one team member per weight class.