Solid Article: Josh Barnett voices opinion over starting on the knees while grappling

[stan myaskovskiy]

http://www.jiujitsutimes.com/blog/jo...ile-grappling/

A lot of really solid points made here. Thought I would share it.
I have trained at a LOT of places where starting on the knees is an unwritten rule.
Definitely have to agree with him myself that its not beneficial to anyone.

[Pat Campagnola]

I agree with him, and I'm sure most people here do as well. Knee wrestling doesn't help anybody. If we're not starting standing, I immediately take 1/4 or 1/2 if my partner doesn't do it first.

[Aiseop]

Let's not be too absolutist on this. Starting on the knees definitely benefits the academy: there are a good portion of students who train jiu-jitsu and enjoy rolling who would otherwise not train (or train elsewhere) if you had to start standing all the time. Starting on knees does help you develop your ground game TREMENDOUSLY. I teach a once-a-week Judo for BJJ class at my school. I enjoy it, I have good regulars, but I also have jiujiteiros who don't do it regularly because of the gravity/injury factor, even though we practice my judo instructor's "Happy Randori/Happy Judo" (Sid Kelly's methodology). It works but people do get beat up. I agree you can't ignore it, especially if you are a competitor, but I disagree that it is necessary to be a "true martial artist." I veer away from these types of essentialist arguments. I wrote an article on this HERE about the analogical fallacy in training: the streets or mma. It's not why everyone trains nor why everyone should train. I think Barnett's points are sound, especially for the young, athletic, MMA aspiring demographic; but that cuts off a huge portion of people who train and, most importantly, BENEFIT from training.

[Pat Campagnola]

I don't disagree with you. When I said I agree with him, I wasn't referring to the "true martial artist" part of the article.

I start on the ground 90% of the time, but don't do the wrestling from the knees act. I don't see how two guys wrestling for a takedown from their knees accomplishes anything. If you're there purely for jiu jitsu, then one person take the bottom position and get to playing jiu jitsu.

[Aiseop]

LOL I wasn't disagreeing with you, but him, you posted as I was finishing typing my reply.

[stan myaskovskiy]

I'd say to anyone who is afraid of getting hurt on a takedown to pull guard and develop a nasty bottom game. Lol

[Chris Ludington]

I think we have to keep in mind space limitations too. Not everybody has a wide open floor space. When you have 16 - 20 guys paired up to roll you are begging for injuries if you all start from standing. I think it's beneficial to have standup times but to disregard the benefit of rolling (while starting from the knees, guard, turtle, etc) is short sighted at best.

[Joshua Jarboe]

I think we have to keep in mind space limitations too. Not everybody has a wide open floor space. When you have 16 - 20 guys paired up to roll you are begging for injuries if you all start from standing. I think it's beneficial to have standup times but to disregard the benefit of rolling (while starting from the knees, guard, turtle, etc) is short sighted at best.

Exactly. My gym is packed tight most nights. If we started on the feet, we would have to either take turns or accept injuries.

[stan myaskovskiy]

I think we have to keep in mind space limitations too. Not everybody has a wide open floor space. When you have 16 - 20 guys paired up to roll you are begging for injuries if you all start from standing. I think it's beneficial to have standup times but to disregard the benefit of rolling (while starting from the knees, guard, turtle, etc) is short sighted at best.

The article does address that starting in other realistic situations is still better than starting on the knees. He stated, "But even still, wrestling on your knees in my opinion is not going to help your rolling very much and it’s not going to help you be better prepared for competition. Instead, start with one person in what I call a negative position with a negative position being: on your back or someone in a dominant top position like side, mount, or on your back. These are actual combat viable positions you will see yourself in all the time while grappling whether you’re the person on top or bottom."

[sean applegate]

Just start with open guard and standing passing. That will deal with the space issue, and correct the kneeling problem. That's how all my guys start. One starts standing and the other starts in open guard.