BJJ Instructor demotes student

[Chris Herzog]

http://www.bjjee.com/videos/watch-bj...o-purple-belt/

[Martin Harris]

I wonder if anyone actually ever promoted him to brown. Just out of curiosity (since I haven't trained long enough to know), if someone was a legit brown and they started training only once a week would their skills noticeably diminish? Seems like they would not that it would just limit progression.

[Chris Herzog]

Any skill that isn't constantly honed will diminish with time, Jiu Jitsu encompasses far too much material to keep old material polished, learn and become proficient in current material, and develop and research new skills and material.

[Arman Fathi]

Any skill that isn't constantly honed will diminish with time, Jiu Jitsu encompasses far too much material to keep old material polished, learn and become proficient in current material, and develop and research new skills and material.

Does that make it ethically sound to demote a student? I've never heard a story like this before, though I've heard it's not uncommon for an instructor to keep a guy at brown belt for 8, maybe 10 years, or perhaps not even promote him at any point. That would seem like a more appropriate course of action than a demotion. If the guy doesn't have a verifiable lineage, then a fake is a fake. But again, there's an ethical dilemma to be considered if guys can get demoted merely due to diminishing skill.

[Chris Herzog]

Does that make it ethically sound to demote a student? I've never heard a story like this before, though I've heard it's not uncommon for an instructor to keep a guy at brown belt for 8, maybe 10 years, or perhaps not even promote him at any point. That would seem like a more appropriate course of action than a demotion. If the guy doesn't have a verifiable lineage, then a fake is a fake. But again, there's an ethical dilemma to be considered if guys can get demoted merely due to diminishing skill.

I wasn't speaking about this particular situation, and no I don't think it your situation warrants a demotion. However, if I gave a student specifics to work on before getting promoted, they left and were promoted by someone at a different school, and they came back and those skills still hadn't been improved I wouldn't accept that promotion in my school, and he/she would come back at the same belt that left with. Especially if I suspect the only reason they left is because I hadn't promoted them yet.

[Arman Fathi]

I wasn't speaking about this particular situation, and no I don't think it your situation warrants a demotion. However, if I gave a student specifics to work on before getting promoted, they left and were promoted by someone at a different school, and they came back and those skills still hadn't been improved I wouldn't accept that promotion in my school, and he/she would come back at the same belt that left with. Especially if I suspect the only reason they left is because I hadn't promoted them yet.

That's fair. I've personally witnessed an example of a guy training at two schools get a second stripe on his blue belt at one school, go to a different school and get promoted to a 4-stripe blue belt (all within about a month of each other) and then he comes back to see the original instructors pissed about it, with good reason imo. It's not like the guy wasn't legit in his technique. That wasn't it at all. But it showed a lack of loyalty and the priority this guy really has in his training. In your hypothetical case that you presented about leaving due to not getting promoted, it would show a lack of consideration for the intrinsic factors, and too much emphasis on the extrinsic factors (e.g. belt color) that one should hope to attain from training jiu jitsu in general. Not to mention that it would be really lame if someone left just because they weren't getting promoted fast enough. But it'd say a lot about their character, and it would seem to me fairly generous of you to allow him back to your school PERIOD, let alone with his old rank. I've moved to a new school recently but made it clear from day one that I'm loyal to my guys in Chicago. It may take much longer to move up in rank this way, since I'll only see them on holidays or a sporadic weekend, but it means more to me to align with their vision of what a black belt should be, which obviously includes the universal technical and physical requirements that'll more or less come with mat time no matter where I train, but just as importantly for me personally, the mental and spiritual development as well.

Interesting discussion.

[Joshua Jarboe]

Do y'all think it would be ok for a professor to give the student the option to be demoted?

I would rather that then wonder for a year or more why I wasn't getting any stripes on my "brown belt."

Better to be seen as what you are. At least have the option.

Maybe that's what happened here?

[Nick Paul]

I don't think it was entirely necessary to video tape it and put it online. I completely understand demoting a student who doesn't truly deserve a brown belt, but it's kind of humiliating to have it broadcasted to the world.

[Joshua Jarboe]

I don't think it was entirely necessary to video tape it and put it online. I completely understand demoting a student who doesn't truly deserve a brown belt, but it's kind of humiliating to have it broadcasted to the world.

Good point. I don't get that.

[Chris Garry]

I find it strange this doesnt happen more tbh.