Two Technical Lockdown troubleshooting questions from Head and arm

[Tyler_Casselman]

Hey guys,

So I put quite a bit of time into the LD last year and I really made some big improvements and gave myself more options... but on the higher level guys at my gym I consistently ran into two scenarios and could not really come up with a good solution... both start situations start from head and arm...

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Situation 1
I have the LD and the top player has head and arm... I use my free hand to pimp arm and C cup his free leg as I always see done in the warmups and breakdowns... however as soon as I set up the frame the top player uses his arm to get a second underhook on my open elbow extended arm... passes his head to the same side and pass quite easily...

In this scenario... there is no chance for a Stomp, no Whipdown, no JOL... So my question is why do we extend our arm and leave an open space for him to get the underhook... and how can we counter or stop this pass from happenning?
(A small note... when Ralf showed me this he never put his hand to the knee... he always pimp armed to the hip which to me makes sense because then I don't give the top player a free underhook)

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Situation 2
I have the LD and the top player has head and arm... In this case I really like going to the Whipdown but again I pimp arm to the hip because I dont want to give up the second underhook... So I get a successful whipdown and typically I am posting to the armpit while keeping my elbow tight crunch my knees up and swing for the whipdown.. I suck my arm back inside and get my double underhooks...

So many times against higher level guys they will overhook the arm that was posting into their armpit and base their weight to the Whipdown side... So I cant get under the leg...so no electric chair.. and I also can't go back to Whip up because of his Overhook and his weight based to the otherside... So usually I will kind of get stalled out here and eventually he will wiggle out of my control and create a scramble.

So when I am doing the Whipdown and the they overhook my arm.. is there anything I can do from here?


Sorry for the long post... I hope I was clear enough in explaining the two scenarios

Any suggestions would be really helpful

Thanks guys

Happy Chinese New Year

[Tyler_Casselman]

If its not clear I can make a video in the next couple days and post it to YT

[Vish]

Also very interested in this since the same shiz is happening to me (scenario 2)

The pimp arm thing, I remember my instructor telling me to keep my elbow stabled to my side when using it otherwise I'll run into what you run into.

I really hate being stalled out in the LD

[Jon Watkins]

I am not a fan of playing lockdown while in head and arm control. It has been my experience that fighting in that position whether things go well or not, you are going to be breathing heavily. I am a big proponent of using Demian Maia's straight line theory to retain guard. I am a fan of using lockdown, but only after I have at least my strong side underhook.

[Daniel Siriphongs]

Hopefully someone advanced will chime in.

Are you saying your arm on the same side as your lockdown is trapped in the head and arm, and that your free arm is on the same side as your opponent’s free leg?

I’ve never put my free hand on the knee, esp if I didn’t have double underhooks. Usually my free hand is working a JOL or something to break the head and arm and get double unders. If I touched that free leg, I was always underhooking the knee for an electric chair after I had double unders.

[Daniel Siriphongs]

I am not a fan of playing lockdown while in head and arm control. It has been my experience that fighting in that position whether things go well or not, you are going to be breathing heavily. I am a big proponent of using Demian Maia's straight line theory to retain guard. I am a fan of using lockdown, but only after I have at least my strong side underhook.

Yes, if that head and arm is tight, it’s a stalemate with a lockdown. They can’t pass but you can’t move either.

[Tyler_Casselman]

@Vish - To me, you have to keep the free arm and elbow tight or your giving them the double under pass... but I must be missing something because whenever I see Eddie demoing LD from Head and Arm he always extends his arm and C cups the far knee...

You don't need to get stalled out though... remember you can always do Stomps, or Whipdowns, and if your flexible you can get a free NJ straight from LD

@Jon - Well yeah in that case you can also come up into him with Dog Fight as well.... I also like to use the John Wayne sweep together with the LD to make them base out and confuse them... Im not familiar with the straight line theory... whats the basic idea?

@Daniel - Yeah thats the scenario man, because if the have the head and arm on the other side its easy for you to sneak out and take the back... I've played this position lots and had a lot of good success with it... Try to work the Whipdown series if you get stuck here... check out Eddie's second match with Royler... He uses the Whipdown to get the underhook repeatedly

Thanks guys

[Daniel Siriphongs]

@Vish - To me, you have to keep the free arm and elbow tight or your giving them the double under pass... but I must be missing something because whenever I see Eddie demoing LD from Head and Arm he always extends his arm and C cups the far knee...

You don't need to get stalled out though... remember you can always do Stomps, or Whipdowns, and if your flexible you can get a free NJ straight from LD

@Jon - Well yeah in that case you can also come up into him with Dog Fight as well.... I also like to use the John Wayne sweep together with the LD to make them base out and confuse them... Im not familiar with the straight line theory... whats the basic idea?

@Daniel - Yeah thats the scenario man, because if the have the head and arm on the other side its easy for you to sneak out and take the back... I've played this position lots and had a lot of good success with it... Try to work the Whipdown series if you get stuck here... check out Eddie's second match with Royler... He uses the Whipdown to get the underhook repeatedly

Thanks guys

I was watching MTS 71 and I see what you mean about cupping the knee. Eddie’s elbow is in pretty tight though. I sometimes Whipup then WhipDown to get the underhook. The Reverse Lockdown with a Heismann sometimes works for me too. But I find myself using all the Lockdown movement to get myself to Pyramid, Homie Control, or straight to Rubber Guard.

[Jon Watkins]

Yes, if that head and arm is tight, it’s a stalemate with a lockdown. They can’t pass but you can’t move either.

It is actually very possible to pass especially if you are decent at unhooking the lockdown with your feet. Movement is also not impossible on the bottom. Eddie made it work the second time against Royler with the whip down, but when I watch the match over, it looked to me the only time Eddie was struggling against the grain was when he lost the underhook in quarter guard and fought like hell to regain the underhook after he mini stomped to lockdown. Everything else was like butter.

[Jon Watkins]

@Vish - To me, you have to keep the free arm and elbow tight or your giving them the double under pass... but I must be missing something because whenever I see Eddie demoing LD from Head and Arm he always extends his arm and C cups the far knee...

You don't need to get stalled out though... remember you can always do Stomps, or Whipdowns, and if your flexible you can get a free NJ straight from LD

@Jon - Well yeah in that case you can also come up into him with Dog Fight as well.... I also like to use the John Wayne sweep together with the LD to make them base out and confuse them... Im not familiar with the straight line theory... whats the basic idea?


@Daniel - Yeah thats the scenario man, because if the have the head and arm on the other side its easy for you to sneak out and take the back... I've played this position lots and had a lot of good success with it... Try to work the Whipdown series if you get stuck here... check out Eddie's second match with Royler... He uses the Whipdown to get the underhook repeatedly

Thanks guys

It is quite simple, but here this clip gives you the basics. Also BJJScout has a video on the bicep ride and straight line theory applies to why it is such a strong defensive guard position. I usually think about the bicep ride as both my launching point for my guard transitions and home base for when a passer becomes aggressive gi or no gi.