"practice curriculum and dont do that fancy RG stuff"

[Apperz]

At the end of the day, you're training with an instructor renowned for his passing. I believe he has a couple DVDs out on pressure passing. From my experience, there have been periods of time (maybe a month or two months, or even a week or two weeks) where I'm only thinking about one or two positions or a certain set of moves. After enough drilling, even though I probably couldn't catch a blackbelt on it, it's good enough that I could go for it in rolls confidently and catch it against a good sample size of partners. I don't think your top game is going to be neglected solely based on the school that you train at. I anticipate you'll go on a similar evolution with your game. You'll be adding piece by piece, and slowly your game will have more layers and will grow incrementally more sophisticated

If you've not seen them you should REALLY check them out. Fantastic stuff.

[William Schrimsher]

My 2 cents, RG is cool. RG is fantastic. RG has some of the most painful subs I've ever experienced. Then again, so does Truck. Master Eddie (or as he prefers to be called: Not late for smoke break Eddie) developed the rubber guard for MMA/nogi situations.

From what I've seen, you're training at a gi school, right? no one is punching you in the face, or intends to do so. RG is a great addition to any already established game, but imo, if that's all you learned, you'd be a one trick pony with a nasty triangle and sucky overall grappling. Go to class. Watch MTS. Read all the RG books you want, but in the absence of an instructor who can tweak and TEACH you RG, leave it alone. Come back at blue belt, your mind will still be open.

"And open mind is a wondrous thing, but too open a mind and your brains fall out."

The RG is too complex of a system for the warm ups. Sure I could've slipped in a move or 2 and I may in the future but for now the RG is for after you master the warm ups.

Edit: I've been grappling for a while, going on 10 years now. that doesn't make me good, 10P blue belts still mop the mats with me. I can hold my own with the BJJ purple belts in the area, but the Decatur Moon and BMAC are wizards of a different breed than anyone else with whom I've ever had the pleasure of training. I've been playing with RG for probably 5 years now, and it's still not good. I still get passed more than I get control. Only since December have I actually made any progress with it, and it's all because BMAC was hands on showing me the holes in the guard. Before I trained with him, it was just another "cheap trick" in my mesh bag of moves.

[Craig Murray]

you're training at a gi school, right? no one is punching you in the face, or intends to do so.

I wouldn't say that. One of the reasons I'm training JJ is as a martial art. I'm also training in a gi because I have to, not because I want to. It seems pointless and unrealistic to me to wear a gi. In a self defense situation I want the guy's back, but if I find myself on my back with someone in my guard and I have some RG, seems reasonable to use it. I am a believer that RG is the best guard for MMA.

imo, if that's all you learned, you'd be a one trick pony with a nasty triangle and sucky overall grappling.

As I've stated before, I'm learning fundamentals at least 4 nights a week in fundamentals classes, and the entire progression from white to blue at my school is curriculum based with a 7-stage advancement system that takes you to bluebelt. The idea that RG is all I am learning isn't accurate.

Also as I stated before I'm planning my first trip to Altus to train with Jason to get help on my RG and other 10p techniques. I'm also attending the 3-day training camp and Master Bravo seminar in May. I'm hoping to get down to Altus as often as possible to get real coaching for my 10p work, while I continue to learn and drill my fundamentals at Lovato's.

My theory is, and has always been, that I can use RG as an extension to the closed guard system I'm already learning. Even at the most basic level it's got great control positions and frequent omoplata transitions. That alone, if I can refine just the basic RG positions, will give people something new to think about when rolling with me. Over time I hope to get to the point where I can sub guys right out of RG, or transition to traditional subs like triangles and armbars from within it.

It does not seem unreasonable to me that if I'm learning BJJ at class, plus drilling and reading and watching videos at home, plus going to a 10p moon on a regular basis for checkups, troubleshooting, and coaching, that I should be able to add a RG to my game, in the gi, and execute it at Lovato's.

Only time will tell, but that's my plan.

I'm not trying to add RG because I'm a Smoke Serpent fan and think Eddie is the coolest guy in the universe. I'm learning it because it feels right to me. But I'm spending a lot more time learning fundamentals than I am anything else. Somehow this point hasn't come through in this thread

[Ericp]

+1

The fastest way to make progress is to follow the program taught by your school. Trying to learn RG when your school is teaching something different isn't very logical and itt will absolutely slow your progress. Also, because people will consistently pass your weak, self taught RG, you won't be respected playing that game and you'll constantly hear that that game (RG) doesn't work.

It makes more sense to work your school's curriculumn until at least blue belt, and then find a training partner at the school who wants to work RG and start drilling and practicing together. That way when you're trying your early attempts at RG and people are passing you, at least you can go to a more traditional technique and recover or tap them. That way, at least your training partners will respect you because they know the only reason they are passing your (Rubber) guard, is because you are working on something new.

[eoin ahern]

ive been pulling rubber guard more and more. i think its good to play around with all the techniques you know. it makes jiu jitsu more fun. obviously i listen to my instructor aswell but he doesnt really know a whole lot about 10th planet.

[William Schrimsher]

Whatever. Do what you want. All I see is someone asking people who DO know how to do a thing for help on learning the thing, and the majority consensus is "Be patient" and your response is basically "I am patient... but."

I never even implied that you shouldn't learn RG, all I ever intended to convey was: "Don't teach RG to yourself"

If you're going to a moon, great, do them a favor and don't have bad habits when you get there.

[Craig Murray]

the majority consensus is "Be patient" and your response is basically "I am patient... but."

Yeah I'm not known for my patience. I have been taking every response to this thread seriously and considering them all carefully. One response in particular I've spent a great deal of time considering.

My training partner's respect. This is extremely important to me, and I've been considering how using RG may affect people's perception of me, and willingness to train with me.

I had not previously considered that playing RG, or any other non Lovato-style techniques, might affect what people thought of me. I was ignorant and assumed they would look at it the same way I would, which would be to say "oh that's cool, let's see if that works for me". But not everyone is as open minded about things, and for many students this is the only martial art and the only dojo they have ever stepped foot in. I can see how that may give them the impression that what they are learning is the best, and only thing, they should work on.

Despite disagreeing with that idea, I do not want to offend or disrespect anyone who has that opinion. Just because someone is wrong doesn't mean I don't still want their respect.

So thanks to this thread I'm going to be very careful about when, and with whom, I practice RG.

Thanks everyone for your responses!

[ben jones]

The fastest way to make progress is to follow the program taught by your school. Trying to learn RG when your school is teaching something different isn't very logical and itt will absolutely slow your progress. Also, because people will consistently pass your weak, self taught RG, you won't be respected playing that game and you'll constantly hear that that game (RG) doesn't work.

It makes more sense to work your school's curriculumn until at least blue belt, and then find a training partner at the school who wants to work RG and start drilling and practicing together. That way when you're trying your early attempts at RG and people are passing you, at least you can go to a more traditional technique and recover or tap them. That way, at least your training partners will respect you because they know the only reason they are passing your (Rubber) guard, is because you are working on something new.
+2

[ben jones]

Either way embrace where you are training
Training with the gi is fun and won't hurt you until you completely rely on gi grips
I would be pumped to train there , kimono or not

[Aiseop]

Now that I'm 8.5 years into BJJ, having switched from different schools, and studying the 10th Planet system this last year, it seems to me that the "basics" are things like balance, patience, control, and decisiveness. All techniques we learn hit upon some type of concept whereby you end up in such total control of another person that they stop fighting. The basic techniques as a white belt are simply the first things you learn.

This is a different thing than the most effective techniques to learn as a white belt. If you're at a school that is fairly open, and your instructor is cool enough to let you do 10th P stuff, then it's going to be a great thing for your development. If you're at a school with a rigid curriculum, whereby even the stripes are mapped to techniques, then you're gonna be frustrated and have a hard time.