Child ranks in 10th Planet BJJ?

[Neil Kiernan]

So this is USA Judo's rules for how a youth participant can waiver the age requirement to enter their tournament as a senior. The requirements include being able to prove that you competed in senior black belt rank tournaments and showed success. You can't enter senior black tournaments unless you have a senior rank. Another of the pages on the site said you had to of at least gotten senior brown, which again means it's possible to get senior brown. http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Judo/Athl...er-Information

[Chris Herzog]

"In judo children cannot get adult ranks as their are age restrictions. This is set up by the National governing bodies in Judo, your sensei is mistaken. There is a transfer system in place (equivalency structure) that when they age in a "promotion" can take place."

That was my original statement on minimum age requirement and the transfer of ranks, and I stand behind it 100%. You tried to twist what I said to mean there are no junior black belts, which I never said. Here is more to further prove what I said is fact.

[Neil Kiernan]

So, from Shufu Judo which is a member of the American Judo Association. This is the Junior Rank requirements:

http://shufujudo.org/wp-content/uplo...ementsV3.1.pdf

And in the notes:

NOTES:

1.After attaining the rank of Ikkyu, the judoka would
earn the rank of Senior Sankyu.

This means he/she should be striving to improve their knowledge and techniques, be participating in either Shiai or Kata in the Senior Division and attain points. Once a judoka reaches his/her 17th birthday the conversion to Senior Sankyu is automatic.

2. A 15 year old judoka has the choice to either attain higher Junior rank (advance as
far as Ikkyu Purple belt) or examine for Senior rank on the recommendation of the
Head Instructor and Registration Chairperson. Senior rank requirements are not
addressed in this document. Please refer to the Shufu Yudanshakai web site for the Shufu Yudanshakai
Senior Rank Requirements. Juniors (those under age 17) can switch to Senior rank when they are physically and
mentally ready to start competing in Senior level tournaments.

3. The Junior minimum age requirement can be waived up to two years for judoka who have clearly exceptional ability and contest record compared to others their age.Their contest record is to include competing in numerous regional, national and/or international level tournaments on a regular basis. This age waiver is only for those who regularly dominate their division and will likely be competing in Senior level tournaments before age 16.

[Neil Kiernan]

You tried to twist what I said to mean there are no junior black belts, which I never said.

No. I didn't attempt to twist anything you said. (Seriously man, this is not personal for me. I also didn't say you meant that there are no junior black belts. You very clearly said that in your understanding that juniors cannot get senior ranks. The problem is there are people who are clearly minors who have senior ranks and enter senior ranked tournaments as a result. The last link I gave you outlines the process that organization uses for juniors testing for senior rank. It's obviously rare and meant for Judoka who demonstrated that they are ready for it through competition. (And I support that 100%).

I understand you don't want people spewing bullshit. We are actually a lot alike in that regard. And that was my motive in trying to clarify my position. Not to twist your words, or to ignore what you are saying. You called me out on it so I am providing proof as you requested. (In a rather blunt and personal tone, which I am not returning, for the record.)

[Chris Herzog]

So, from Shufu Judo which is a member of the American Judo Association. This is the Junior Rank requirements:

http://shufujudo.org/wp-content/uplo...ementsV3.1.pdf

And in the notes:

which isn't recognized national governing body, so it's irrelevant.

[Neil Kiernan]

which isn't recognized national governing body, so it's irrelevant.

That doesn't make it irrelevant. Nor is it irrelevant that Juniors with Senior ranks are entering senior tournaments. Or the OPEN WORLD tournaments.

[Chris Herzog]

That doesn't make it irrelevant. Nor is it irrelevant that Juniors with Senior ranks are entering senior tournaments. Or the OPEN WORLD tournaments.

The IFJ does not recognize rank unless it from one of the main 3 in the United States. Hell they won't recognize the USJA unless the athlete is a member of USJI or USA Judo as well.

[Chris Herzog]

No. I didn't attempt to twist anything you said. (Seriously man, this is not personal for me. I also didn't say you meant that there are no junior black belts. You very clearly said that in your understanding that juniors cannot get senior ranks. The problem is there are people who are clearly minors who have senior ranks and enter senior ranked tournaments as a result. The last link I gave you outlines the process that organization uses for juniors testing for senior rank. It's obviously rare and meant for Judoka who demonstrated that they are ready for it through competition. (And I support that 100%).

I understand you don't want people spewing bullshit. We are actually a lot alike in that regard. And that was my motive in trying to clarify my position. Not to twist your words, or to ignore what you are saying. You called me out on it so I am providing proof as you requested. (In a rather blunt and personal tone, which I am not returning, for the record.)

I all ready stated and provide the conversion and equivalency chartfor Dan ranks for juniors which is why a 15 yr old black can compete as senior nationals. Which continues to support what I have been saying all along.

[Neil Kiernan]

So it looks like you got these images from here: http://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf from USJF.

In the first picture it shows Junior Black Belt having the exact same rank for "conversion" as Senior Black Belts. As in Junior Black Belts are Senior Black Belts.

The rest of the document also says that the minimum age for Shodan or 1st degree black belt is 14 years old.

Rank Requirements
Handbook Section VI
Section VI • Page 12 of 18
Copyright©2005 by United States Judo Federation,Inc.

SHODAN

GENERAL REQUIREMENTS:
1. Unquestioned moral character and maturity
2. Continued practice and interest
3. Achieve a minimum score of 75 on “Shodan Evaluation Report”
4. Increased proficiency in all lower rank requirements
5. Terminology required for lower ranks
6. Names, colors and order of junior and senior belt ranking system
7. Minimum age of 14 years

The issue here is that you said you cannot attain senior ranks in Judo at all as a youth.

[Neil Kiernan]

Going to attempt to bring this back on topic again.

I think the proper resolution to the question of whether or not youth can reach senior ranks in Judo is "It depends on what organization you are dealing with..." not "No you can't." And that's a compromise I am ok with.

USJA allows you to convert Junior Purple to Senior Black. (Now, not just for the sake of the argument about youth black belts, but this means that in that organization a child who goes through all of the promotions can look forward to being a "senior" black belt as soon as they meet the age requirement.) http://www.usja-judo.org/promotion-requirements/

In contrast, youth rank in BJJ currently means nothing. There is no conversion system.

I am all for making sure that there is quality. (Which is also why what warmed me up to the idea was a competition requirement.)

I think that would be a good rule for BJJ as well. 10th Planet and otherwise.