me no are no nice guy (sparring etiquette)

[bobby rivers]

Note. I'm taking into account collegiate wrestlers, linebackers, trad martial artists, and crossfitters.
At my old gym we had drop ins all the time of a guy looking to test himself. And he wants to do it today. He's prepped for this ultimate test, and you're on your 6th straight day of training(including 40hrs work) and just in your routine. You have to have a plan for this. Many people are natural athletes with strong backgrounds other than jj. These are the issues. Not the guy that finally took time away from his corporate investment banking career to do the first discipline ever. They are the ones you need to pull to the side and drill with before they can even begin to freeroll properly. But many need to see the truth and on a consistent basis. At least from somebody. You can dismantle, without smashing or pain, although I do love to smash, but remind them that the only difference is reps and mat time. If they get frustrated by being completely technically controlled and quit, well that's a common story. Jj isn't for them. Learn how to smash and inspire simultaneously.

[AKRhino]

To add onto what Mike said if you allow people to work there game everytime it will go to there head, and anyone new watching will think less of you. Yesterday one of my whitebelts was going for what I taught in class, i let it work. Then later one of my other whitebelts comes up and says "im surprised sanjay tapped you, because sanjay has never tapped me" then you are left sitting there an do you put down your student and say i just let it work and seem like a dick or do you just let this guy think less of you?

I'd respond to the second student by explaining that there is no winning or losing on this mat, and that the point of rolling is not to tap people out, but for you, AND your rolling partner to get better.

That's my take on it anyway.

[AKRhino]

Ok guys, this whole issue continues to be a mystery to me. Tell me if I'm right or wrong…

1. I give a new white belt room to work and let him sink in an RNC. Instead of hitting my high percentage defense I try out a new one knowing it might not work and I might have to tap. I tap… Have I confused my training partner or done him a disservice? Am I not repping my rank?

2. I catch a guy two ranks above me in a heel hook and he looks PANICKED. Out of respect (not safety in this instance) I release it. Have I shown the dude respect or should I finish the sub?

3. Intensity… I generally adapt myself to the other guy but this sometimes means I am rolling below a level that I feel is actually making me better and might actually be reinforcing bad habits. What to do?

Thanks- any light you can shed on this would be most welcome.

1. I used to go for the quickest sub possible when rolling with lower ranks the first time. After that first sub I'd relax and flow. Never really had any issues, as they could tell the difference, one would hope. Now I don't really care. I roll the way I roll, and don't care about tapping. It is what it is. Not that I let people sub me or anything, I definitely do not, but if they do, no big deal, let's play again.

2. It depends. If it's someone you know, take it, if it's someone you don't know that well, ask them ahead of time if they're comfortable with leg locks/heel hooks, etc. I'm not comfortable with just anyone diving for my ankle.

3. Rolling with low intensity doesn't mean rolling in a way that reinforces bad habits. Pick a focus, like weight placement, or flowing from one thing to another. If you're still having trouble close your eyes. My coach would occasionally turn out (most of) the lights in the old gym.

[scottross]

1 and 2 are the opposite sides of the same problem, how to roll with people of a different rank.

Considered on its own, the second situation makes absolutely no sense - of course you tap a higher belt out. The only problem would be if there is a gym prohibition on certain techniques for white belts (like heel hooks).

The first situation is something that many people have a hard time with. You should not get caught by a lower belt, but if you are working on something new, it is best to start with white belts even if that means you might get caught. If you do get caught, assert your belt in the next roll. Perhaps it is a good idea to get a couple of quick taps with your A-game so that the white belt knows what is up before moving on to what you are working for.

I occasionally tapped brown belts as a blue belt but I knew damn well that did not mean that the brown belt was incapable of dominating me if they brought their A-game. They left an opening and I was fast enough to capitalize on it. They smashed me the next go-around.

On intensity, unless the other person is injured or requests a light roll, I roll hard. If I am injured, I don't ask for light rolls. I simply point out my own injuries and ask them not to crank it but I accept that if I roll when injured, I may have to tap to lower belts. My elbow is still weak after being injured at NAGA and re-injured in a white belt accident, so I've been tapping to things that normally would not happen and I hate it, I hate it, I hate it but I have to accept it. I feel stupid but I have to remind myself, I have earned my rank.

[Jason Hyatt]

1. I vary a lot on this and I think it has as much to do with my mood that day as my overall training mindset. If it's a white belt who is larger and more aggressive, I'm gonna play things much safer than if it's a smaller guy who isn't trying to qualify for Abu Dhabi during open roll. If it's a brand new guy and they aren't spazzing, I go very light and keep it playful. I'll tap them a bunch, but I don't get rough with them. Many times in that situation I'll just see how long a string of transitions I can do before going for the sub. If I'm tired after a work day, I'm much more likely to let you do whatever it is you're trying to do and work my way out of it. That forces me to put in work even when I don't want to. It keeps me from being lazy mentally even when my body doesn't want to do anything. There are definitely days, though, where I came to TAP some fools and I want to put in real work. Chances are you're gonna spend some time in my RG or trying to escape TSC if I'm having that kind of day. I do have to say that I am reconsidering how I go about doing this. I agree that if you practice letting people pass your guard, you're going to get good at getting your guard passed. If I want to work my side control escapes, I should start there.

2. To be honest, I don't really think about catching higher belts. For starters, we only have a couple and I don't often get to roll with them. I've caught guys better than me and I've been caught by guys worse than me. I look at it like playing pick-up basketball. Some guys are going to drive the lane hard and dunk on you. I'm more of a sit on the outside and snipe at you with three-pointers and a clean jump shot kind of guy. Either way, some games I'm gonna score more, some games you are. Just because I hit a few three-pointers doesn't make me Kobe no matter how good you are. And just because you can dunk on me doesn't mean I have no game.

3. This is an area of weakness for me and has been since day one. I have little intensity in my game. I'm quick to disengage if I'm tired or if the thing I was trying to do fails. Coach once told me my biggest hang up is that I don't pull the trigger when I have someone in my sights. If my partner is very aggressive, that tends to make me more passive. I've been out with enough injuries and illness that if you're gonna go Hulk-smash on me, I'll just tap and reset. If that means I spend the whole round trying to escape side control, well then I got some conditioning in at the very least. This is an area I need to improve on. I know for sure it holds back my development because I spend less time dealing with higher-intensity opposition. I just hate being so exhausted that the next round is no fun so I modify my intensity to keep playing.

[Matt Skaff]

1. I usually let new guys move a little bit until they try and turn the intensity up on me. If you are going 20% against an athletic white belt that's going 100% you are probably going to end up with a bloody lip, knee to the head, or they try a sloppy submission attempt that they want to squeeze until you tap. At our gym we always say go as hard as you want the other person to go. That being said, if I let a white belt work one round, the next round ill probably try and smash them. Some of my best learning experiences and reality checks have come from getting smashed by a higher belt. So I have no problem trying to provide a similar experience.
2. I never use toe holds and heel hooks against white belts. With that being said, I used to have a touch and move on policy with heel hooks, but I believe that is setting yourself up for failure. A few months ago I competed at a submission only tournament and failed to finish several heel hooks in multiple matches. Every time I went for the finish my opponents would roll out because my control sucked. I realized afterwards that in class I would get to these same positions and would count the touch and go heel hook as a win. So in my case, I was giving myself false confidence in my heel hook skills because I would fly into these positions without truly ever getting control while going for the finish like I would straight ankle locks and toe holds. Since then I have focused on getting to heel hook positions with as much control as possible. Once there, I will try and finish. Recently, I have finished a few heel hooks in competition and I credit my new thinking on training with heel hooks.
3. On Tuesdays and Thursdays I always roll hard because its competition rolling. Other days I train it depends on my training partners. Whether someone wants to roll with a competition intensity or slow roll, I am game.

[Kurzy]

My opinion:
1) If you tell the person what you're up to, there should be no issue. (Even if you wait till after)
2) Whitebelts use heelhooks at our club. Just saying.
3) I can't comment, because I have recently been informed that I apperently roll "very intensely" even though to me I don't feel like I am rolling very intensely, so my Intensomomiter might not be functioning properly.

[Matt Skaff]

1. I usually let new guys move a little bit until they try and turn the intensity up on me. If you are going 20% against an athletic white belt that's going 100% you are probably going to end up with a bloody lip, knee to the head, or they try a sloppy submission attempt that they want to squeeze until you tap. At our gym we always say go as hard as you want the other person to go. That being said, if I let a white belt work one round, the next round ill probably try and smash them. Some of my best learning experiences and reality checks have come from getting smashed by a higher belt. So I have no problem trying to provide a similar experience.
2. I never use toe holds and heel hooks against white belts. With that being said, I used to have a touch and move on policy with heel hooks, but I believe that is setting yourself up for failure. A few months ago I competed at a submission only tournament and failed to finish several heel hooks in multiple matches. Every time I went for the finish my opponents would roll out because my control sucked. I realized afterwards that in class I would get to these same positions and would count the touch and go heel hook as a win. So in my case, I was giving myself false confidence in my heel hook skills because I would fly into these positions without truly ever getting control while going for the finish like I would straight ankle locks and toe holds. Since then I have focused on getting to heel hook positions with as much control as possible. Once there, I will try and finish. Recently, I have finished a few heel hooks in competition and I credit my new thinking on training with heel hooks.
3. On Tuesdays and Thursdays I always roll hard because its competition rolling. Other days I train it depends on my training partners. Whether someone wants to roll with a competition intensity or slow roll, I am game.