Anyone using testosterone boosting supplements? What kind?

[David Rosado]

I don't know about doubling your sperm count but it does make it taste better according to my girl. I'm talking within that same day as long as you stay away from coffee, onions, red meat. Fresh squeezed orange juice seems to help too. But this thread isn't for that......Kyle.

[Charlemange August K.]

human growth hormone

[Kyle Spalla]

The thread has been suspended by the Neveda State Athletic Commission for 1 year for testing positive on 37 banned substances.

[Gary Burton]

dianabol. The breakfast of champions

[DanConway]

I'm not trying to take steroids, or HGH, or anything that is banned or illegal. This question was asked to find out if there is something I can take that will benefit my performance and is not going to be harmful in the long run. I don't see anything wrong with that. If it's legal I don't take issue with using it.

But you see that is the point I was trying to make that you might be missing, just because its legal, doesn't mean it isn't harmful and is non steroidal or non hormonal. These products get banned in cycles and they modify them to be legal until that version gets banned. You cannot use legality as a basis for if its safe. Even if its something natural that may not be banned and does have the effect of increasing your test levels, it will commonly effect your body very strongly in other ways which are either flat out negative or have to be managed very carefully.

You want the real deal? Research in DEPTH how test boosters work, how they effect you on and post cycle, and everything involved with the endocrine system related. What happens when you stimulate test production in that manner, what happens when it declines, the entire chain in the body's process, how does it effect production and regulation or these things and hormones now and in the future, how does that specifics substance effect you outside of the direct primary manner? What effects do THOSE effects have, and what reactions are caused by them leading to additional changes... HCG agonist..? That must be a good thing? Why have so many pharmaceutical HCG agonists had law suits or been black labeled by the FDA? The label on this product says it makes the cycle better!!

Do not read this information from a bodybuilding forum, or any pro supplement biased source, use educational sources and reference articles like pubmed and academic resources. But nobody is willing to do that, they just want to be TOLD that is ok, by other people who did it and have convinces themselves it is, they want to read someone make a summary on a website article that says its ok aslong as you take this other thing after then this other thing after that etc... If your willing to do the real research, then maybe consider taking these kind of supplements...

But ill stop being so preachish about these kinds of things ...How they effect the body are variable to your bodies state and the substances themselves, and for many people can bring much more good than bad. I just feel compelled to make suremy brothers in the 10p family realizes the implications instead of just making a choice based on the propagandist state of the supplement world, because it is def. not as simple as take this and only good things happen.

[Kurzy]

Great post, Dan. I'm not a 100% puritan, because as I mentioned, I drink a protein shake after my jitz classes (only recently), but I basically think that if we were meant to eat HGH or whatever, it would grow on a tree or in the ground.

Regarding Tim Ferris, I am not saying he is right or wrong or anything of that nature: I just think that both sides should always be looked at, much like what you were talking about with the supplements and their positive VS negative effects. For all the positive reviews there are conflicting negative reviews that are diametrically oppossed to them, and there really doesn't seem to be anyone half way between. I find that interesting.

[VicDorfman]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'm not looking at this supplement as a short cut. I eat well, I train hard, I lift hard, I'm doing all the right things. I still find myself sore, and broken down after several days of intense training as I'm sure everyone else does. I'm looking for something extra to increase recovery, muscle growth, strength. The recovery supplements I've tried recently had no tangible effect that I noticed, so I've been researching what else is available. I'm not trying to take steroids, or HGH, or anything that is banned or illegal. This question was asked to find out if there is something I can take that will benefit my performance and is not going to be harmful in the long run. I don't see anything wrong with that. If it's legal I don't take issue with using it.

I've decided to just keep using the preworkout stuff I've been using, and I'm jumping on the Dolce Diet to try to really optimize my diet, and get as much nutrition, and calories as I require. We'll see where that leads, and I'll approach this subject again in the future if I feel inclined to do so.

Ryan, sounds like a case of overtraining. Lifting on top of full time jitz schedule is discouraged by a lot of top fitness experts. I asked Pavel Tsatsouline about lifting in addition to grappling. Here's his response:



(reference: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog...dlift-program/ )

Have you optimized Vitamin D levels & sleep (8+ hours a night)? Take ice baths? Yoga? Good luck :-)

[Kyle Spalla]

Ryan, sounds like a case of overtraining. Lifting on top of full time jitz schedule is discouraged by a lot of top fitness experts. I asked Pavel Tsatsouline about lifting in addition to grappling. Here's his response:



(reference: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog...dlift-program/ )

Have you optimized Vitamin D levels & sleep (8+ hours a night)? Take ice baths? Yoga? Good luck :-)

You know what cures overtraining, testosterone....uuhh..I mean horse meat...yeah!-Alistair Overeem

[Ryan Clinton]

But you see that is the point I was trying to make that you might be missing, just because its legal, doesn't mean it isn't harmful and is non steroidal or non hormonal. These products get banned in cycles and they modify them to be legal until that version gets banned. You cannot use legality as a basis for if its safe. Even if its something natural that may not be banned and does have the effect of increasing your test levels, it will commonly effect your body very strongly in other ways which are either flat out negative or have to be managed very carefully.

You want the real deal? Research in DEPTH how test boosters work, how they effect you on and post cycle, and everything involved with the endocrine system related. What happens when you stimulate test production in that manner, what happens when it declines, the entire chain in the body's process, how does it effect production and regulation or these things and hormones now and in the future, how does that specifics substance effect you outside of the direct primary manner? What effects do THOSE effects have, and what reactions are caused by them leading to additional changes... HCG agonist..? That must be a good thing? Why have so many pharmaceutical HCG agonists had law suits or been black labeled by the FDA? The label on this product says it makes the cycle better!!

Do not read this information from a bodybuilding forum, or any pro supplement biased source, use educational sources and reference articles like pubmed and academic resources. But nobody is willing to do that, they just want to be TOLD that is ok, by other people who did it and have convinces themselves it is, they want to read someone make a summary on a website article that says its ok aslong as you take this other thing after then this other thing after that etc... If your willing to do the real research, then maybe consider taking these kind of supplements...

But ill stop being so preachish about these kinds of things ...How they effect the body are variable to your bodies state and the substances themselves, and for many people can bring much more good than bad. I just feel compelled to make suremy brothers in the 10p family realizes the implications instead of just making a choice based on the propagandist state of the supplement world, because it is def. not as simple as take this and only good things happen.

I appreciate your concern, Dan. I'm aware there are risks, and potential side effects, although I can't honestly say I've looked into all the science. I posed the question here to see if people had actually used something, and what the results were. I'm more interested in personal experiences than scientific data, but you're right I should probably do some more research before I actually decide to take something. I have a friend/training partner who works for as a rep for a supplement company, and is in the Neuroscience program at the U of M. I'd bet he can break some of this stuff down for me. I'm definitely gonna have some conversations with him about it.

As I said I'm not going to look at this as an option at the moment. I'm starting the Dolce Diet, and I'm hoping some changes in nutrition will help to bring some positive results. I've been eating very well for quite some time now, but I still don't think I'm getting everything I need when I'm training all the time. Thanks for your responses, sir.

[Ryan Clinton]

Ryan, sounds like a case of overtraining. Lifting on top of full time jitz schedule is discouraged by a lot of top fitness experts. I asked Pavel Tsatsouline about lifting in addition to grappling. Here's his response:



(reference: http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog...dlift-program/ )

Have you optimized Vitamin D levels & sleep (8+ hours a night)? Take ice baths? Yoga? Good luck :-)

Thanks for this. I'm quite certain I'm overtraining. I've had more than one trainer at the fitness club I go to tell me that. My physical therapist I see on occasion has told me the same thing.

I essentially follow that plan already. I lift 3 days a week, at least 2 lifts, and sometimes all 3 take place on days I'm not doing jiu jitsu. I'm lifting heavy, and only 3-4 exercises of 3-6 reps for minimal breakdown. I don't sleep enough, I don't take ice baths, and I rarely do yoga. I probably get enough Vitamin D though.

I'm going to make some little changes to the way I've been doing things. Trying to optimize my performance. We'll see how things go over the coming months.