Could "London" make a comeback?

[Brent Smith]

After watching "This Week In Bjj" with Shawn Williams and Eddie, the topic of the London came up. Since London is essentially the Shawn Williams Guard and Shawn had a couple answers for the cartwheel pass, I was curious if London could make a comeback. Or do you guys think it would even be worth looking into? Just keeping a tight Chill Dog or IC seems like a more solid poition but I was mainly curious, Eddie, if by talking to Shawn did he show you anything that made you rethink the position?

[John Mejia]

My thing with that is he is conceding the pass to switch to a low single. If your wrestling is better than your flexibility I say fuck with it a little bit, but I personally don't plan to throw this into my game as of now. Maybe later down the road. There's too much IMO margin for error. If I have London or Williams guard and he passes, if i don't immediately switch to that low single I get put into an "Unsettled" situation.

[Brent Smith]

I could agree with that. My wrestling sucks so I think it would be a bad path for me at the moment. I did like that teeter totter sweep from jiu claw though

[Greg W]

no, seems like a completely un-needed positional stop once the hand is on the mat. once the hand is on the mat I should have NY anyway and sure wouldn't want to leave NY to go to london. Unless the Olympics were on.

[John Mejia]

I could agree with that. My wrestling sucks so I think it would be a bad path for me at the moment. I did like that teeter totter sweep from jiu claw though

That was very sneaky and I'm definitely going to rep the shit out of that.

[Brent Smith]

no, seems like a completely un-needed positional stop once the hand is on the mat. once the hand is on the mat I should have NY anyway and sure wouldn't want to leave NY to go to london. Unless the Olympics were on.

I dunno I think theres more options from London than there is NY. With NY you can either Pop Triangle or continue on the basic path. With London you can move to Chill Dog, triangles, omaplatas etc

[Greg W]

NY goes to Chill Dog and you can double bag through it. If you go to chill dog from London you need to get your hand out or he will spin out. NY goes to omaplatas dam near the same way as london. As for triangles you opponents far arm is free to stop the leg while both of yours are stuck. if you go to meat hook you can wrist control to try and pass the arm. Eddie didn't get his london spun out once and decide to drop it, it was a process I'm sure and to me that video did show a significant change to stopping the spin out. My bottom turtle is pretty good, but wouldn't want to give the guy an easy pass out of my guard so I can work from turtle.

[Brent Smith]

Good points.

[John Mejia]

NY goes to Chill Dog and you can double bag through it. If you go to chill dog from London you need to get your hand out or he will spin out. NY goes to omaplatas dam near the same way as london. As for triangles you opponents far arm is free to stop the leg while both of yours are stuck. if you go to meat hook you can wrist control to try and pass the arm. Eddie didn't get his london spun out once and decide to drop it, it was a process I'm sure and to me that video did show a significant change to stopping the spin out. My bottom turtle is pretty good, but wouldn't want to give the guy an easy pass out of my guard so I can work from turtle.

I'm on the same page as you

[David Rosado]

Can it still be used? Yes. Can it still be effective? Yes. Should it be put back in the system? No. Master Eddie built the system to be high percentage. If London is that easy to pass, it has no place in the system IMO. I'd prefer to pass and sprawl on a low single than be in someone's guard.

If I'm on bottom, I don't want to be fighting for a low single while a guy can sprawl out on me and defend attacks where I need to fight to replace guard and have to start from scratch with williams guard. Going for a low single doesn't sound like a great choice to me.

It's obviously effective if you can get your leg in front of the face quickly. But it's not a place you wanna hang out in.