This is why I prefer chokes as a goto..I'll go for all other joint lock related subs, but chokes will always be my number one. You could hyper extend, and pop a dudes arm, or foot, and they still fight!! We saw it with Jacare vs. Roger Gracie, and we saw it with Jones vs. Vitor, and now we got this guy. :/ Adrenaline is a hell of a thing...At least with chokes, if a guy goes out, then there isn't a dispute on who won.