Very few moves I hate, and this is one of them. I always think about using it as I'm there a bunch, but refuse to on priciple. Right up there with that dam Dan Sevrin move Eddie does. This thread should be deleted, so nobody else tries this dumb ass crank. At least with the twister you can apply slowly. Everytime I have submitted to this the guy just cranks and I can't tap fast enough to prevent minor injury. I don't use it, cuase I never want anybody to use it on me. I might use it in a comp, if it were legal, but never,never in training and never never in training with somebody I don't know very well and train with often. Be a man and try and finish with a choke. might be the worst move in all of BJJ. The art might be better of to just let this one go.