Why don't BJJ schools practice where eye gouges, biting, and groin grabs are allowed?

[Aab]

I don't see why this is such a big deal, isn't one reason we train armbars is to keep from getting our arms broken in a fight. Shouldn't we also train eye gouges for the same reason? Wouldn't you feel horrible if a student of yours went into a fight against a superior striker, went for a takedown and ended up blinded for the rest of his life.

AJ, a simple scratch above the eye while I'm grappling 100% will show me something in the end, it doesn't need to end the match but it'll give me something to think about.

Wear a cup, sunglasses and toughen your skin up so its bite proof by rolling around naked on a pile of bricks every day all day. Hope this helps.

[lost]

Sounds like fun, when do we start?

[AJ Camacho]

AJ, a simple scratch above the eye while I'm grappling 100% will show me something in the end, it doesn't need to end the match but it'll give me something to think about.

Again, you are literally just practicing how to scratch people in the face. As for something to think about... I guess? I don't know if it would or wouldn't and on whom? That's my point, it's all theory. People aren't losing eyeballs in your JKD class and I doubt your coach has a collection of lacquered eyeballs under glass in his study.

I mean you guys aren't even practicing on pig heads to dial in your eye scooping technique.

[stlnl]

I don't see why this is such a big deal, isn't one reason we train armbars is to keep from getting our arms broken in a fight. Shouldn't we also train eye gouges for the same reason? Wouldn't you feel horrible if a student of yours went into a fight against a superior striker, went for a takedown and ended up blinded for the rest of his life.

AJ, a simple scratch above the eye while I'm grappling 100% will show me something in the end, it doesn't need to end the match but it'll give me something to think about.

Your reasoning is backwards. "went for a takedown and ended up blinded" is about as goofy as can be. We train to get into positions where we dont get gouged too easy, but fact is, anyone who wants to put fingers to your eyes, can do so. Closing them is the only real response, in real time, against a determined gouge. Now, of course if I put a guy in total holddown his ass wont gouge a thing. Same deal if I am mounted, any attempt at a gouge will make my dance partner toothless, and armless.

Just not too many spots a guy can gouge me in, especially, an untrained guy. Not many that I am going to be in with a "life and death" situation looming. Because most of the postions I will be in will be me standing, over the dude I threw on his head, soccer kicking him.

By the way, I dont practice curb stomping either, perhaps I should?

[Matt "Gumby" Glach]

Brandon makes a good point... if you live in a place where there is legitimate street violence or you put yourself in situations where you could be required to use truly debilitating attacks, then you should probably just carry a weapon. Eye gouges, biting, and groin grabs are worthless against a knife. A knife is worthless against a gun. A single shot pistol is relatively worthless against an AK47. And an AK47 won't do shit for you against a grenade. BJJ is a sport, and training is usually tailored to the rules of the sport. Maybe BJJ isn't the martial art you should be training? ...just my 2 cents.

[GorlockMacGregor]

I think it's pretty easy to tell who has been in a fight in this thread and who hasn't.

Lost, a friend of mine made the exact same arguments as you. "I could gouge out your eyes from inside your guard!" So I let him in my guard....and put my hands over my eyes. After I got done laughing (I amused myself), I put him in a triangle instantaneously. He still thinks that he could eye gouge me "somehow".

You're the first guy I've heard of who is going to gouge someone mid shoot. Try and eye gouge a D1 Wrestler as he's shooting in on you. I'll meet you in your hospital bed to hear about it.

Also, good luck explaining that you used equal force by popping out a guy's eyeball to a jury.

[lost]

This is giving me a headache, I'm going to class and work on my rubber and tornado guard.

By the way, I don't think BJJ should be thought of as sport formost, just a small aspect of the art, just my 2 cents.

[GorlockMacGregor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U96M9...eature=related

Unfortunately it cuts off during the most important part (the very end of the video), but the entire video is good watching.

[frank-theman-james]

I used to train in traditional martial arts. We had all kinds of little drills for throat chopping, eye gouging, and sack punching. Years of training that stuff never gave me a real sense of confidence that I could somehow turn on that "switch" and become a lethal ball tearing face biting machine. Training in grappling now, there is no switch. It's just always on. If some hobo tried to tackle me I'd more than likely laugh and sprawl his head into the concrete without even giving it a thought.

If your techniques work for you, that's awesome. And I'm not even here to say that such techniques are nonsense. My only point is that real time, 100%, full speed sparring/rolling gives a sense of acclimation and awareness that cannot be replicated in drills, one steps, or simulated attacks. This to me is one of the greatest assets of jiujitsu and back to the OP's original question, is why moves that cannot be sparred at 100% can be omitted from the lexicon.

I understand What your saying. I think everyone can appreciate juijitsu and the ability to actually practice at a high intensity level. Shit I love it. But from time to time, I like to show off my flashy shit too. I also enjoy my traditional juijitsu finger locks and wrist locks. But I will say that at this time, I'm all about 10pjj

[frank-theman-james]

I think it's pretty easy to tell who has been in a fight in this thread and who hasn't.

Lost, a friend of mine made the exact same arguments as you. "I could gouge out your eyes from inside your guard!" So I let him in my guard....and put my hands over my eyes. After I got done laughing (I amused myself), I put him in a triangle instantaneously. He still thinks that he could eye gouge me "somehow".

You're the first guy I've heard of who is going to gouge someone mid shoot. Try and eye gouge a D1 Wrestler as he's shooting in on you. I'll meet you in your hospital bed to hear about it.

Also, good luck explaining that you used equal force by popping out a guy's eyeball to a jury.

hey gorlock, I wanted to share a couple of things with you just as a different view of all these things you raised here. in response to your division one wrestler theory, I had this very thing happen one night at a party where a very good friend of mine who happens to be a former all state and division 1 and formerly a wwe pro wrestling champion. we were drinking and after many shots we were horsing around and talking smack when one thing led to another and it got real. he swung at me three times in which I was able to dodge and then he shot in on me. as his head got to my belly, I over hooked it with my left and fishhooked his left cheek with my right thumb and spun his head around and stood him back up, we wrestled and eventually he took me down where I immediately pulled old school rubber guard and transitioned to london positon, where I used his ponytail to secure the position deeper and control his head that much more, and this left my right hand free to backfist him several times to the face before some other friends broke us up. a few days later we spoke and all was forgiven and chalked up to drunken stupidity, which I am very glad that we did, because to this day, we are the best of friends and have a love and mutual respect for one another. So dirty tricks can be effective if utilized right. I think someone even said that maybe not so much for an untrained guy, but someone with training can be very lethal when they need to be, and I think that makes the difference.

As for the legal aspect, I've unfortunately have found myself there waaaayyyy too many times. The key to self defense is that you can you whatever means necessary to fend off an attack equal to the force being delivered. You can't shoot someone who punches at you once, but if you attack me with your bare hands, anything that I do with my bare hands is ok to repel your attack, and thats the key, repel and flee is the courts answer to street fighting, as long as you do that your fine. In my personal case, I've repelled and then proceeded to beat the shit outta them, this is wrong, because I then became the aggressor, which is no better than being the attacker.

End thought is that "lost" raised some very good points about lethal techniques and training, but because they are lethal, training them is a very difficult sword to walk, so I wouldnt advise scratching anyone to practice. I also wouldn't discount them either, as I have used them in several street fights, and no, I don't live in a place where this happens, but yes, I did bounce in bars, bounty hunted, and did private security work for over twenty years where I did feel those options necessary for my personal health and safety. So, you guys who practice juijitsu as a sport, thats great and I love it too, as most of the systems that I have trained for years, but Don't be so hard on people who question real life and possibly death applications of the same arts. people train for various reasons, some for belts, some for exercise, and some to be lethal and feel more confident about their abilities to be safe in dangerous situations. hope that maybe this clears up a few thoughts or even makes you sit back and think about different aspects to training, as I think that might have been "lost" idea to begin with. You may not agree with his approach or methods, but that doesn't make him stupid either, hope every one has a great day, because the weekend is here.