training question - or is more about implementation?

[ern]

Normally when I learn a new technique in a specific class, I drill it in class, then I drill it one more time (when I say one more time I don't mean one more repetition I mean one more class time) then I try to incorporate it into a live roll. Sometimes I roll with no intention of trying to submit someone, but rather force the person through baiting or scramble to get me into a position so that I can practice the move live. I am not having the best rates of success in hitting it in the first live roll attempt, my scramble might have cost me bad position and I get submitted. Sometimes I try it like 2 or 3 times and the guy is now waiting for the next attempt. What do you do? Is this a valid strategy? I am kinda on my own with this stuff as I have posted before, some guys don't want to drill escapes, sweeps, defense or transitions, but they all seem to like to drill submissions. I am not drilling submissions at all anymore, as I feel that I really need to work on transitions and control and the submissions will come in time. I think that if I improve my transition game, stop leaving arms/legs/neck available to hit with the submission, I can let people carry my weight, tire a little, and then go for my submissions. I am dealing with a lot of guys who have lengthy wrestling backgrounds, so they are kinda tired of drilling takedowns and control positions. I don't have a wrestling background, so I need more work on takedowns, turning corners, controlling guys on the ground, and moving properly. The Sambo coach is really good at ground transitions and I feel some improvement.

Maybe I am overanalyzing this stuff, I have a habit of doing that.

E.G. I learn a move - transition, sweep, guard pass, whatever on Wednesday, Saturday I drill it some with a willing and sometimes unwilling participant, Monday I try to use it live. If I feel shaky about it on Wednesday I ask the instructor to clarify it again for me, get some reps in, then Saturday I try to go live with it the whole time.

for the record, I don't really care if I get submitted (I don't let it just happen) while trying to work on my stuff. I figure it is a learning experience. It isn't like they are repeatedly punching me in the face, I just tap and we go again.

any input would be appreciated. Sorry for being long winded, just hard to condense this.

[John Mejia]

I think what you're doing isn't wrong or right. Everyone's Jiu Jitsu journey is different. If its helping you nail those moves, and later on you're having success with it then why worry about how you're going about incorporating those moves. The most important thing is reps. You have to continuously put reps in drilling, and sparring, but maybe incorporate 85-90% resistance drilling and you may see a smoother transition to live rolling. One thing that I've picked up in the couple years of doing Jiu-Jitsu, is to just flow with what you're given(Positions, Transitions, Scrambles) because there is always a way to get back to where you want to be. Just keep doing what you're doing and if you see improvement continue with it.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

I have no other 10th planet guys to drill with (I will starting may 15th though) so I have had to drill with my dog or in my mind and then work things out live rolling. It's been hard as hell. Who wants to give up dominant positions to work on rubber guard or half guard when someones trying like hell to sub you? I eventually made it pay off for the paths out of half guard but it took a lot of getting smashed by really big guys and getting tapped when I could have worked for dominant positions and "won".

I dont believe there is any great solution for those of us that don't have people to drill 10th planet with. One thing that my coach told me has proved valuable on this topic, you want to split your rolling in thirds. ie one third of the time roll with people that you have no chance of tapping, 1/3 w/people at your level and 1/3 with people you can always tap. This give you a chance to play around with stuff on the guys that aren't so good yet.

I would have to say that at the very beginning levels I would just worry more about balance, base, breathing, body awareness and basic escapes and sweeps.

interested to see what better guys have to say about this.

[Ryan Brick]

If thats the mothpd that works best for you then there isnt anything wrong with it, everyone learns differently.

I learn something new, drill it a couple times, try it sparing figure out why it didnt work drill it again and so on until I have a deep understanding of what every single step of the move accomplishes and what happens with the technique if I miss one.

I would be leery about never going for submissions though, you will notice them less and less.

Sometimes when I spar Im trying to be completely defensive and not allow my opponent to gain an inch sometimes Im trying to submit my opponent every 10 seconds sometimes Im trying to just pick a position and stay in control until you get mad and tap from side control and some times im humting for specific submissions and sometimes I just do a move with the intention of seeing how you react to what I did.

Also IMO if your team mates dont want to drill controls, transitions and such they are basically doing catch wrestling not BJJ. In brazilian jiu-jitsu having the ability to keeping mount forever and knowing 1 submission is better then not being able to keep mount and knowing 10 subs from mount...

[Kyle Spalla]

Normally when I learn a new technique in a specific class, I drill it in class, then I drill it one more time (when I say one more time I don't mean one more repetition I mean one more class time) then I try to incorporate it into a live roll. Sometimes I roll with no intention of trying to submit someone, but rather force the person through baiting or scramble to get me into a position so that I can practice the move live. I am not having the best rates of success in hitting it in the first live roll attempt, my scramble might have cost me bad position and I get submitted. Sometimes I try it like 2 or 3 times and the guy is now waiting for the next attempt. What do you do? Is this a valid strategy? I am kinda on my own with this stuff as I have posted before, some guys don't want to drill escapes, sweeps, defense or transitions, but they all seem to like to drill submissions. I am not drilling submissions at all anymore, as I feel that I really need to work on transitions and control and the submissions will come in time. I think that if I improve my transition game, stop leaving arms/legs/neck available to hit with the submission, I can let people carry my weight, tire a little, and then go for my submissions. I am dealing with a lot of guys who have lengthy wrestling backgrounds, so they are kinda tired of drilling takedowns and control positions. I don't have a wrestling background, so I need more work on takedowns, turning corners, controlling guys on the ground, and moving properly. The Sambo coach is really good at ground transitions and I feel some improvement.

Maybe I am overanalyzing this stuff, I have a habit of doing that.

E.G. I learn a move - transition, sweep, guard pass, whatever on Wednesday, Saturday I drill it some with a willing and sometimes unwilling participant, Monday I try to use it live. If I feel shaky about it on Wednesday I ask the instructor to clarify it again for me, get some reps in, then Saturday I try to go live with it the whole time.

for the record, I don't really care if I get submitted (I don't let it just happen) while trying to work on my stuff. I figure it is a learning experience. It isn't like they are repeatedly punching me in the face, I just tap and we go again.

any input would be appreciated. Sorry for being long winded, just hard to condense this.

Gonna need my bong and my readers for this one folks.

[bobby rivers]

Im not saying this is your coach.

One of the main problems many have with drilling techs and making them apply is how and when they are taught. Many coaches show isolated random techs. A halfguard sweep, then a mount escape, followed by a guard sub. This gives you one move in a position to try to shove down an opponents throat, who is defending(and probably did the drills too). This is ineffective and a setup for frustration and failure.

Techs should be presented in series, because there are always counters and defense. But these counters and defenses leave holes to be countered themselves. Start with and master the original drill. Realize that he will intelligently react and defend, then drill your counter. It keeps going and whoever runs out of counters or gets controlled first loses.

The secret to making a drill work live, is knowing it inside and out. His options, your options, timing, base. Whoever knows more automatically has the advantage. Whoever can exectute wins.

[Josh Bodmon]

Wow, glad you asked about this because it's really cool to read different perspectives and opinions from those far more experienced. My one major point of feedback regarding this is to really try to focus on basics, and developing those as you develop the rest of your game. I had an issue similar to yours when I started, and even over time, training a tonne of subs was still useless. It was only when I rerouted my focus, and spent a tonne of time focusing on basics that I was able to gel my subs with my sweeps, transitions, passes, etc. The simplest things make the difference. For me, framing (always when on bottom, whether be with knees in a z guard, or with my arms while side mounted or in an open guard, etc), gripping (and developing my grip game aswell as my overhook/underhook consciousness and proficiency), along with constantly trying to work on basics (basic passes, sweeps, etc that I can expand on later and always go back to when trying things in live rolling) have made a huge difference in my success, efficiency, and ability to then expand and work in all sorts of fun stuff into my game

[michael h]

The only problem with not drilling any submissions with your transitions is that you don't have them to threaten your partner to open up for the transition. Because they aren't worried about subs they are waiting for your transition and getting ahead of it. You don't need to drive for sub but you need to have something to make them worry about.

[VictorV]

Actually, this is informative. Gives me some ideas when we start rolling next month. That's whay I love this place. I've gotten more knowledge in a week than I've gotten on other sites in a month.

[ern]

"The only problem with not drilling any submissions with your transitions is that you don't have them to threaten your partner to open up for the transition. Because they aren't worried about subs they are waiting for your transition and getting ahead of it"

good point, didn't think of it that way.