nogi...no evidence so far!

[Isaac Atley]

for me its all about timing. We really need to let another decade or so pass to give the 10p kids that are like 5 years old now a chance to grow up exclusively training with the system. See where they land at as black belts in ADCC etc.

IMO the biggest problem 10th planet has atm is I have noticed with many of the 10p academies, they don't train often enough. For example, very few have 2 or more nogi classes available per day 6 days per week. The best academies have 4+ classes per day available to their students. You need that though to compete at the very highest levels, but that is a massive commitment as an instructor, so it may be hard to leave full time employment with secure and steady pay.

Like I say though its just a time thing. 10p is growing all the time. I have no doubt in 10 years there will be 10p guys winning or at least podium finishes in every weight class in adcc etc.

i agree completly. give no gi sometime.

i think that no gi and gi translate very well into each other becaue they share a lot of the same principles but the fact si they are different and consist of different mindsets. i think as we see no gi evolve the difference will be more defined as well. training gi wont hurt ur no gi and it may even give u a better perspective. like lookign at something froma different angle so in that sense i can see it being better doing both but saying that the gi players are the ones that are killing in no gi is just silly.

and ive always thought what eddie said was really a great way to look at it. im not gunna quote but it pretty much points out that take away all the grips from the gi and theres a big hole in the gi game. but a no gi game, based around hooks and clinching is a lot more likely to work in a bunch of situations mainly because most people have arms to hook etc.

who cares about gi and no gi? its like skin colour, gender, language religion, whatever who cares. as long as u dont have a go at me for doing what i like to do, im generally gunna be fine with you doing your thing

[kevinculp]

Is this a troll thread? Lol. I don't get why you would post this. You been drinking a little too much of the kool aid?

Ha! No... just a fan of jiu jitsu. All of it. I think it has more to do with the mindset than what outfit you train in. I have really bad arthritis in my fingers so I almost never play gi grips. I play over hooks and under hooks. But its my perspective that nogi is less dangerous. Far less options for attack but all the same options for defense. Because your style is very different you have success until it reaches mainstream than the creativity and experimental approach will lead to counters just like it has with all styles. Look at berimbolo you are now starting to see many effective counters when before nothing. Realise its not your lack of gi its your openness that makes you great!

[John Mejia]

Give 10th Planet about 5-10 more years, and they'll crush big name tournaments. Already the amount of guys who are competing and making the podium in IBJJF NoGi comps are more than we've seen in the previous year and the percentage is better. I'm sure if we go through and break down the competitor to medal ratio, 10P's percentage will be high. (No pun intended)

As for ADCC, we're a young system being raised and nurtured from the ground up. We don't have the star power that Atos, AOJ, Cobrinha, Caio Terra association, Ribero Jiu Jitsu, Barra, Brasa, and all those other traditional schools have. In 8 years I'd be willing to lay down cash that 10P will have killers who will rival the stars of those organizations and the ones who are future stars as well. Like anything it takes time. 3 dudes repping 10P in ADCC is better than none, plus a 10P Black Belt, Vinny Magalhaes,

Do I need to play the Gi to get recognition by the IBJJF as a great, probably, but for me recognition is great but what's more important is the system getting recognized. As long as I'm putting my ass on the line every time and going out for the system then the system gets recognition, and that goes for every other 10P competitor, If we continue swarming comps and continue smashing everyone In front of us, it'll turn heads and our actions will speak louder than words. The system will raise killers, Gi or NoGi 10P's here to stay and there will be guys who will rival the greats and that's exciting as fuck to think about. Could you imagine Decatur's Manny Rocha under the lights at ADCC competing in the same division as Caio or Jeff Glover, I sure can. In due time boys and girls, in due time.

[Mike Nall]

Rafa's gi game is very gi based, not like how Marcelo trains to work for both

Rafa plays gi and no gi differently and even says that

I understand what Eddie Bravo is saying though. Rafa does a lot of the same physical movements. Like a lot of De La Riva and a lot of Reverse De la Riva (Spiral) in both the gi and no-gi. I mean no-gi he mostly plays reverse de la riva, but he plays that a lot in the gi too.

From the top he focuses a little more on getting the front headlock from the top and rolling past the guard into anacondas, darces, and guillotines. He does his leg drags slightly different, and does a lot of lateral passing back and forth, changing side and working his way up the body.

Overall he attacks the back in both, and looks to sweep and submit or sweep and get to the back to submit. I feel like you and Eddie are both right. he does "play" gi and no-gi differently, and says that he relies more on speed and moving from side to side in no-gi, but in terms of actual techniques when you take away the rear naked choke and the head and arm chokes he doesn't use a lot of different techniques. Marcelo will also say he has to do some things differently in no-gi. Obviously no spider guard in no gi from Rafa.

Dlr, spiral and 50/50 translate gi to nogi very well. Isn't that what Rafa plays gi & nogi? That's what I thought he plays, I could be
wrong tho, if I am, shame on me for assuming his gi game was like his nogi game, my bad.

Lister and Vinny have done way more damage nogi than gi as far as gold medals go at the black belt level, no?

Check my post above. I was saying that Rafa uses many of the same techniques in both, but the way he moves is more speed in no-gi, and more kimura grips and front headlock grips to make up for the lack of gi grips. Rafa plays less 50/50 these days but he and Cobrinha usually end up there. Overall I think you and Liquidrob are both right. Cliff notes: I think he plays many of the same techniques, but I think the way he plays them is slightly different.

[kevinculp]

To Master Eddie...I mean NO disrespect. Out side ofy deep half game the whole rest of my game is from your half guard system. I feel like one of your students even though I have only trained with you a couple times at The Bomb squad but it made a huge impression on me!

[Mike Nall]

You should train no-gi, it makes your gi game tighter.

I know you meant this as a joke but I do this. I think they both help each other.

[Liquidrob]

I understand what Eddie Bravo is saying though. Rafa does a lot of the same physical movements. Like a lot of De La Riva and a lot of Reverse De la Riva (Spiral) in both the gi and no-gi. I mean no-gi he mostly plays reverse de la riva, but he plays that a lot in the gi too.

From the top he focuses a little more on getting the front headlock from the top and rolling past the guard into anacondas, darces, and guillotines. He does his leg drags slightly different, and does a lot of lateral passing back and forth, changing side and working his way up the body.

Overall he attacks the back in both, and looks to sweep and submit or sweep and get to the back to submit. I feel like you and Eddie are both right. he does "play" gi and no-gi differently, and says that he relies more on speed and moving from side to side in no-gi, but in terms of actual techniques when you take away the rear naked choke and the head and arm chokes he doesn't use a lot of different techniques. Marcelo will also say he has to do some things differently in no-gi. Obviously no spider guard in no gi from Rafa.




Check my post above. I was saying that Rafa uses many of the same techniques in both, but the way he moves is more speed in no-gi, and more kimura grips and front headlock grips to make up for the lack of gi grips. Rafa plays less 50/50 these days but he and Cobrinha usually end up there.

I usually agree with you Mike, but I think it's pretty clear Rafa plays 2 different games, IMO of course

In the Gi he is primarily De L Riva/Berimbolo and in No Gi he is Inverted De La Riva (Spiral)/KOD, he attacks the back but with different bottom games to get there IMO. Like you said in No Gi he goes front headlock, anacondas, etc...which he doesnt use much in the Gi plus he favors arm drags No Gi also

Marcelo is like, I'm playing butterfly, Single X and X no matter what where as Rafa favors DLR in the GI and IDLR No Gi, plus he teaches Spider and Lasso where Marcelo wont even touch it

Maybe we're saying the same thing, but at this point like you said before the whole Gi/No Gi thing is kind of silly, all the top guys practice both

[Mike Dewitt Jr]

I have always enjoyed the Greco-Roman wrestling vs Judo comparison, would a GR competitor get better faster and tighter if he trained Judo more than GR wrestling?

[kevinculp]

Give 10th Planet about 5-10 more years, and they'll crush big name tournaments. Already the amount of guys who are competing and making the podium in IBJJF NoGi comps are more than we've seen in the previous year and the percentage is better. I'm sure if we go through and break down the competitor to medal ratio, 10P's percentage will be high. (No pun intended)

As for ADCC, we're a young system being raised and nurtured from the ground up. We don't have the star power that Atos, AOJ, Cobrinha, Caio Terra association, Ribero Jiu Jitsu, Barra, Brasa, and all those other traditional schools have. In 8 years I'd be willing to lay down cash that 10P will have killers who will rival the stars of those organizations and the ones who are future stars as well. Like anything it takes time. 3 dudes repping 10P in ADCC is better than none, plus a 10P Black Belt, Vinny Magalhaes,

Do I need to play the Gi to get recognition by the IBJJF as a great, probably, but for me recognition is great but what's more important is the system getting recognized. As long as I'm putting my ass on the line every time and going out for the system then the system gets recognition, and that goes for every other 10P competitor, If we continue swarming comps and continue smashing everyone In front of us, it'll turn heads and our actions will speak louder than words. The system will raise killers, Gi or NoGi 10P's here to stay and there will be guys who will rival the greats and that's exciting as fuck to think about. Could you imagine Decatur's Manny Rocha under the lights at ADCC competing in the same division as Caio or Jeff Glover, I sure can. In due time boys and girls, in due time.

Well said! Team Unity is huge!

[Jesse Briggs]

Yeah it's frustrating spending hours getting the spider guard tight then you want to be an mma fighter and all your sweet shit went out the door!

There was an interview with Vinny Magalhaes a few episodes back, I like how he put it, saying its good in the very beginning of your training, to slow the game down, learn some of the traditional self defense aspects of it early on. I almost see it like a history
Lesson , so you know why certain concepts developed etc. if you don't get caught up in it, it can help you to remove certain things that you may be doing that are unnecessary in no gi, but you have to surround yourself with pretty progressive practitioners for that to work.
If you decide you are going to be a sport jiu jitsu competitor, in gi, it's a must to train in it. When I was fighting Amateur I trained half and half and didn't give what I was working much thought, just whatever my coach wanted me to do. If i could go back, i would have done it differently. Right now I'll go back and forth 6 months mostly gi, 6 months no gi.
During my personal journey I discover things about one training in the other. For example what helped me to perfect doing a harai goshi in judo was actually going to wrestling practice and executing it with an overlook instead of gi grips, but my pummeling in wrestling is way better from judo grip fighting... I'm sure others would have maybe a harder time going back and forth, I like it because it allows me to think outside the box, ie attack gi with a no gi mindset or vice versa!