douche moves

I didn't mean to pry. I was interested from a safety standpoint. If someone knows the story please feel free to leave out the names, etc. I'd really just like to know what the circumstances were. I have used both the gag reflex and the cobra choke several times and I'd like to think I take care of my partners. If there's a detail to highlight, I'd just like to be aware.

Hope everything turned out OK.

For me I don't use the can opener, I also don't use any fist chokes (although one girl I train with likes to use it, I've been able to escape so far but the ruptured jugular vein does concern me now). I also don't like to go crazy with leg attacks I will generally lock it on and see if they tap/concede if they don't I just transition. I also don't do any face grinding or oversmashing (shoulder of justice).

Originally Posted by Jason Hyatt

I didn't mean to pry. I was interested from a safety standpoint. If someone knows the story please feel free to leave out the names, etc. I'd really just like to know what the circumstances were. I have used both the gag reflex and the cobra choke several times and I'd like to think I take care of my partners. If there's a detail to highlight, I'd just like to be aware.

Hope everything turned out OK.

This I don't care to hear gossip but If it's a safety issue the word should be spread names are not important.

Yockel does fist chokes and other related things. He doesn't do it to get a tap but just to get u to defend so it opens up something else. Because he know him we don't find it dbag-ish but newer guys probably would. On a rare occasion someone will try some sort of fist choke and get me to tap from it. It's rare anyone goes for it and more so just caught off guard by it. If i tap from it I just think ok well now I see that one coming. Where as if he caught me in a darce or something I could give him props on it.

Oh but cobra chokes are cool.

Why dont you use the can opener? I mean dont break their neck but they just gotta open their guard. If you only train for ibjjf i guess i could understand. anyone that conditions their neck for getting stacked should be able to handle a little can opener, right?

Separately, whats the deal with this jugular danger?

I don't think the can opener even fits into the "douche move" category. If its applied like any other submission (slowly, giving the person a chance to tap without injury) its legit.

the reason why i ask is because i did it for the fisrt time in about a year or two and it felt bad using it. its a pain move that is ridiculously easy to put on. i feel like i didnt deserve a tap from it. now that i know about the juggular thing i think i might jsut stay away from it altogether. maybe to get them to defend it. i think that getting someone in a tight submission etc is fine but to me the fist choke is just ridiculously basic.

thanks for the info guys

but if you tap someone with submissions which are simple then are you not uping their game for them? My coach repeatedly had to open hand choke from the mount (rape choke) me but after a few times i learned how to quickly deal with it and now I dont believe it will ever get me, same with the can opener and my favorite training partner, i never had to tap to it cause he was not putting on fast or hard but he allowed the chance to figure out how to deal with it and now i know and when it happens i just deal with it.

It really depends if you're training for self deference, mma or sport jiujitsu.

I want to know what Zog thinks about this stuff? Whats this jugular death risk thing?

As far as the whole shoulder pressure/ cross face/ forehead pressure discussion, these are all parts of the game. They are highly effective and uncomfortable but that means the person on the bottom needs to learn to deal with them in class so you can deal with them in competition. and if you are really that worried about getting cross faced, tell your partner before, just like you would for heel hooks or arm/ knee crushes.