London... Did it really have to go?

[Sean James]

If the sweep is highly effective then i think... It could be a short-cut to the top first.

I would use it for the purpose of making the guy step over London leaving me where I want to be, sweeping and getting on top already passed the guard.

However, if i am not confident that the sweep will get me on top and passed the guard with the same or less difficulty than the usual RG omaplata sweep, Why allow the opening for the escape if i have a better sweep with more options along the way?

Secondly.. If the sweep is highly effective, then opponents will eventually not want to step over. Leaving you with all the options from Closed London Guard.

So I think we should first figure the effectiveness of that sweep (See-Saw).

[David Rosado]

Can you turn his cart wheel escape into anything? Like attack the knee after or a sweep?

If you could counter it into something it could just be a pathway, dude will sit there or cartwheel over so you know that everytime you have to react the same way to his pass

Ive never really tried playing london because when i started learning rubber guard it was already considered weak. Im guess it cannot be turned into anything which is why its cut. At the point he steps over both hands and your leg are all commited to doing the same thing where as anything else in rubber guard you kind have a hand free to work.

Maybe zog knows how to counter it with a leg lock or something else that Eddie doesnt use often so he doesnt see it as an option?

Just my thoughts, it would be nice to have that as an option to avoid strikes

If you got good at that single it could still work well, you go from the bottom not getting hit maybe land some strikes he spins you get the single and get on top or use it to stand. That would score big points in mma.

But if you miss it you get smashed...

My wrestling sucks so I dont' like that single leg option. I'd say sit up as fast as possible and try killer B control? Just a thought.

[Eddie Bravo]

London was so deep in the system back in the Bomb Squad days that for a while we started all rolls in London. I believed it was a very powerful position and one that everybody needed infused into their DNA. But once I started seeing dudes cartwheel out of London with ease and ending up in side control I thought to myself, "oh fuck, this is a serious problem." Then when Ziggy started letting people get him in London just so he could get side control I immediately pulled it from the system.

Most people who get caught in London don't know there's an easy way out that leads to side control so using it at this point is fine, but I'm not gonna get my boys used to playing that position.

London traps your arm under your leg, and in MMA, because of the gloves, your hand is even more trapped.

Chill dog and IC is way better. Your hand isn't trapped. It's free to block cart wheels while simultaneously hugging the knee to keep things tight.

[Sean James]

The opening for the cart-wheel is before London is locked down (London w/guard closed). Is there a way to get into London without opening the guard?

[Kevin Bergdorf]

The opening for the cart-wheel is before London is locked down (London w/guard closed). Is there a way to get into London without opening the guard?

In my (limited) experience playing with this position I have been able to get to London Closed direct off Non-Stop-> Zombie. So I guess in that situation my guard remains closed or maybe only opens for a second in order to clamp the shoulder. Other times it has been from Mission Control and the guard is obviously open there.

[Kevin Bergdorf]

London was so deep in the system back in the Bomb Squad days that for a while we started all rolls in London. I believed it was a very powerful position and one that everybody needed infused into their DNA. But once I started seeing dudes cartwheel out of London with ease and ending up in side control I thought to myself, "oh fuck, this is a serious problem." Then when Ziggy started letting people get him in London just so he could get side control I immediately pulled it from the system.

Most people who get caught in London don't know there's an easy way out that leads to side control so using it at this point is fine, but I'm not gonna get my boys used to playing that position.

London traps your arm under your leg, and in MMA, because of the gloves, your hand is even more trapped.

Chill dog and IC is way better. Your hand isn't trapped. It's free to block cart wheels while simultaneously hugging the knee to keep things tight.

I live between two worlds right now… waiting for 10p Louisville to get up and running and training other places where parts of the system are taught. I'm constantly trying to reconcile the two. The history helps- thank you!

[Mario Lopez Alvarez]

Rubber guard doesnt work. It's garbage

- Renato

[Kevin Bergdorf]

[Ryan Brick]

I used London for the first time last night, you really get those armbars and chokes fairly easy from there... It helped none of my guys know to cartwheel out yet

[Kevin Bergdorf]

I used London for the first time last night, you really get those armbars and chokes fairly easy from there... It helped none of my guys know to cartwheel out yet

Well, when they figure it out… just close your guard