me no are no nice guy (sparring etiquette)

[Kevin Bergdorf]

Ok guys, this whole issue continues to be a mystery to me. Tell me if I'm right or wrong…

1. I give a new white belt room to work and let him sink in an RNC. Instead of hitting my high percentage defense I try out a new one knowing it might not work and I might have to tap. I tap… Have I confused my training partner or done him a disservice? Am I not repping my rank?

2. I catch a guy two ranks above me in a heel hook and he looks PANICKED. Out of respect (not safety in this instance) I release it. Have I shown the dude respect or should I finish the sub?

3. Intensity… I generally adapt myself to the other guy but this sometimes means I am rolling below a level that I feel is actually making me better and might actually be reinforcing bad habits. What to do?

Thanks- any light you can shed on this would be most welcome.

[Mike Nall]

Ok guys, this whole issue continues to be a mystery to me. Tell me if I'm right or wrong…

1. I give a new white belt room to work and let him sink in an RNC. Instead of hitting my high percentage defense I try out a new one knowing it might not work and I might have to tap. I tap… Have I confused my training partner or done him a disservice? Am I not repping my rank?

2. I catch a guy two ranks above me in a heel hook and he looks PANICKED. Out of respect (not safety in this instance) I release it. Have I shown the dude respect or should I finish the sub?

3. Intensity… I generally adapt myself to the other guy but this sometimes means I am rolling below a level that I feel is actually making me better and might actually be reinforcing bad habits. What to do?

Thanks- any light you can shed on this would be most welcome.

1. Be careful about how much room you give other people to work. I used to do the same, thinking I was being helpful, only later to realize that a lot of people thought I was just not very good. It's still good to be helpful but just do it in the right ways. For example, if you want to let someone work side control, let them start from there. But don't let them pass your guard. It's a bad habit that will come back to bite you. It might not sound like much, but letting someone pass your guard is muscle memory that will come back during tough rolls later on.

2. It depends on the etiquette of your gym. I would be annoyed at a blue belt trying to heel hook me for real, and typically I don't trust anyone under purple when it comes to heel hooks. But I would be more annoyed at them going for one and then stopping because "Hey man I am respecting that you're a higher belt." Not sure. Again, your gym culture is your gym culture. It seems more disrespectful to me, to only let go "out of respect". If you're going to actually crank heel hooks instead of doing catch and release, you might as well actually go for it. Either do them catch and release, full on, or don't do them. But pick one and decide. That's my 2 cents there. Whatever you choose, just know that heel hooks are a pandora's box, and once you start going for heel hooks on people that are possibly better than you, don't be surprised if you get heel hooked back just as hard.

3. Don't reinforce bad habits. Your gut is probably right. Adjusting intensity is fine and it cane be done without sacrificing quality, but if you feel it's below a level that's going to make you improve then you shouldn't so it. That goes back to the muscle memory stuff. I did this for a long time and it only hurt me in the long run.

[Kevin Bergdorf]

1. Be careful about how much room you give other people to work. I used to do the same, thinking I was being helpful, only later to realize that a lot of people thought I was just not very good. It's still good to be helpful but just do it in the right ways. For example, if you want to let someone work side control, let them start from there. But don't let them pass your guard. It's a bad habit that will come back to bite you. It might not sound like much, but letting someone pass your guard is muscle memory that will come back during tough rolls later on.

2. It depends on the etiquette of your gym. I would be annoyed at a blue belt trying to heel hook me for real, and typically I don't trust anyone under purple when it comes to heel hooks. But I would be more annoyed at them going for one and then stopping because "Hey man I am respecting that you're a higher belt." Not sure. Again, your gym culture is your gym culture. It seems more disrespectful to me, to only let go "out of respect". If you're going to actually crank heel hooks instead of doing catch and release, you might as well actually go for it. Either do them catch and release, full on, or don't do them. But pick one and decide. That's my 2 cents there. Whatever you choose, just know that heel hooks are a pandora's box, and once you start going for heel hooks on people that are possibly better than you, don't be surprised if you get heel hooked back just as hard.

3. Don't reinforce bad habits. Your gut is probably right. Adjusting intensity is fine and it cane be done without sacrificing quality, but if you feel it's below a level that's going to make you improve then you shouldn't so it. That goes back to the muscle memory stuff. I did this for a long time and it only hurt me in the long run.

That helps a lot especially the muscle memory aspect of it. Heel hook was a bad example… substitute any submission.

[Ryan Brick]

If the whitebelt is executing technique let him work it, but add proper resistance sometimes shut it down so they know the counters. Say he is going for dog fight but doesnt get double unders, crush the fuck out of him. You dont want to let people work bad habits.

At the same time If you never try your new RNC escape youll never get bluebelt level at it, if he taps you it just means your not a bluebelt at that move not in general.

To add onto what Mike said if you allow people to work there game everytime it will go to there head, and anyone new watching will think less of you. Yesterday one of my whitebelts was going for what I taught in class, i let it work. Then later one of my other whitebelts comes up and says "im surprised sanjay tapped you, because sanjay has never tapped me" then you are left sitting there an do you put down your student and say i just let it work and seem like a dick or do you just let this guy think less of you?

Man if you get a purplebelt in a sub take it. Take it everytime, he should know how to escape. It also possible he let you get him in one so he could practice his new escape, similar to you and the whitebelt

Thats my opinion, im interested to see what the other moon heads say

Hope it helps :-)

[Slick Rick]

1. Experiment: go ahead and tap and learn. You're technically training, so it's okay to experiment. How else are you gonna know whether something will work or not, if you aren't getting LIVE feedback.

2. Heel hook crank or not: As much as you'd love to prove a point, you should learn to submit your opponent without breaking their stuff. If you're at a point where they just aren't going to tap, and the sub is sunk and you know it, take a mental note and let it go. Injured training partners means less to play with. Of course if it's a choke, put em to sleep. Anything that'll break a bone, I typically get them to submit, verbally, or touch-n-go.

3. Intensity and adapting: Hopefully you have a variety of guys available to roll with, and not only white belts. In any case, it goes back to learning and experimenting. It'll be a good time to practice techniques you're experimenting with. Those techs may not work on higher level guys but you won't perfect em unless you put your reps in. So start off simple and see if it works for white belts, and then test on blues, then purples, etc. What you can to as well is put yourself in bad positions, and perfect your defense against the white belt, and follow through to the submission.

[Tom Carbone]

Ok guys, this whole issue continues to be a mystery to me. Tell me if I'm right or wrong…

1. I give a new white belt room to work and let him sink in an RNC. Instead of hitting my high percentage defense I try out a new one knowing it might not work and I might have to tap. I tap… Have I confused my training partner or done him a disservice? Am I not repping my rank?

That's a good question. You don't want some new guy to go around telling people "yeah, im tapping out a bunch of blue and purple belts at the gym already." It could not only make you look bad, but your gym as well. However, you want new people to gain some confidence and enjoyment out rolling so they dont quit during that initial (1-6 months?) learning phase. I could be wrong.

Mike makes a good point about not getting in the mindset of letting people pass.

[bobby rivers]

New guys are like a box of chocolates.. Some are timid and need coaxing and encouragement, while others feel like a Tuesday open mat is the Kumite. My feel out process is staying protected and control of the inside space, till I recognize which I'm dealing with. Until I know them and there attitude, I try to do my best and show( let them feel) what jj is all about. I technically dismantle them. Bout halfway through the round, if I wanna let them work, I will talk them through an escape from a dominant position or sub attempt. If they keep showing up and have a good attitude, we can play. Until then, I establish dominance on behalf of good technical jj. If you start capitalizing on positions and endangering me in a position I let you have, you're gonna see it a lot less.

Eddie's deadzone drills pretty much does this in itself. It saves everybody from their own ego, and makes everybody start in badspots, then flip to goodspots. Its fair and forces you to let them work. Its a drill, so tapping isn't such an ego stomp.

As for tapping higher belts, go for it. But get ready for a 'smirk and a smash' after. I will do anything I can not to tap to lower belts. I'll let them catch me, but then defend and try to escape 100%. My ego's just not there yet..

[Tori Applegate]

IMO...
1.Be technical at all times, stay tight. Let them get you in a dominant position, then stay tight, let them try to crack you open, then when they make a mistake, and they will...escape in a technical fashion. Then show them your skills, you get in a dominant position and get some reps on your set ups & subs. That's how I play it with the newer guys. Like Rick said, it makes your defense more solid letting them get you in a dominant position then defending and working your way out.

2. Finish it. Either he made the mistake of letting you work and let you work too far, all the way to the sub. In that case, his mistake. He never should've let you get that deep.

3. I always roll hard so I'm prob not the one to take advice from in this aspect. I suggest you find a few people you can really turn it up on. I'm the smallest of the bunch so I get away with being aggressive..overly sometimes, but I'm also a serious competitor. We have a lot of people trying to compete and get really good at our gym so while I'm probably the most aggressive, others are working on their smashing, trying to find ways to make me miserable and put pressure on me. Find the more intense guys. For the ones that are not so intense, find a specific technique or pass, etc. that you want to aim for in that roll with them and get some reps in. Make it where it's not boring for you and they have to be active.

[Brandon Mccaghren]

If I am playing with a new guy, I will reward him for properly executed technique. Or if he's really new, I might even reward him for a good idea.

For instance, if he is in bottom half guard and he is working for an underhook and to get to his side, I will generally allow him to have it. As he improves over time, I amp up the resistance. Eventually, he has to be able to take the underhook or he will be crushed into the dirt.

[Chad Clark]

Slick Rick is the man. Also Brandon Mccaghren

I would add to the answers above:
1. If somebody is like brand new (less than 3 months) I'll give them a little bit of resistance, but if what they are doing is technically sound, I'll let them eventually suceed (eg: new guy gets put into side control, if they t-rex good and tight and shrimp like they are supposed to I'll let them out. They may have to struggle, but I'll let them escape, albeit with a little more resistance from me the next time.) I figure its kind of like training a pet. Positive re-inforcement for good behavior (shrimping, t-rexing) and negative re-inforcement (shoulders of justice, crushing their soul ala Brandon Mccaghren, anything else non-douchey that comes to mind to just help them realize "what you are doing is not a good idea") for spazzy behavior.

2. Was he spazzing out because you were breaking "da rules" or because he couldn't handle being caught by a lower belt? If it was the former either dont' do the heel hook anymore and opt to attack with a "safer" technique or don't roll with him anymore. If it is the latter and you legit caught him, it means either A) you have exposed a hole in his game and you need to continue to do so for him to either evolve or die or B) your game is getting tighter and you need to continue on your path to mastery, brother!

3. Having some people you can just absolutely go to war with on a nightly basis is awesome and is definitely needed to up your game, but so are the people you can smash. If you can steamroll somebody and neither of you are getting anything from the roll, stop using your A-game and start putting in the reps on your B-, C-, and D- game. Absolute annihilation on the mat for a noobie (and even some more experienced people I've heard) is a sure-fire way snub someone's interest in grappling. I'm sure bruised and battered egos have ended more jiu jitsu journies than torn shoulders, knees, ankles and backs combined.