The mf Government

[Aaron Gustaveson]

Never understood what people mean by "the government" our government is made of "elected representatives" (corporate whore shills) but do they really have common goals or organization?

[BIBIANO]

Never understood what people mean by "the government" our government is made of "elected representatives" (corporate whore shills) but do they really have common goals or organization?

true, "the government" is a pretty general term. It can mean different things in different contexts. I disagree that the government is made up of elected officials, that too is an over simplification. Large portions of the government are not elected officials. A large portion of government work is done by agencies that might have been created by elected officials, but to say the government is made up of elected officials is untrue. Fish/game, dmv, law enforcement, courts and the senate are all government, only a small portion of them are elected officials. Regardless, when you say that the government is made up of elected officials, I still knew what you were talking about.

I don't think by using the word government you are implying that they have common goals or purposes. When an anthropologist says people have a large frontal cortex, it is saying that every human has one, nor is it saying that all humans have common goals or organization. My point is: I don't think it is particularly helpful to ban any/all generalizations.

I always felt like when I talk about "the government," there is a certain level of understanding that I'm not saying every single person who is involved in the government is X. I'm just talking about who ever is responsible. But, if we waited to know exactly which person in the government was behind a decision before we criticized it, I think it would be impossible to change our political system

[Ross Davidson]

The politricks, who rob and hold down your zone.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

true, "the government" is a pretty general term. It can mean different things in different contexts. I disagree that the government is made up of elected officials, that too is an over simplification. Large portions of the government are not elected officials. A large portion of government work is done by agencies that might have been created by elected officials, but to say the government is made up of elected officials is untrue. Fish/game, dmv, law enforcement, courts and the senate are all government, only a small portion of them are elected officials. Regardless, when you say that the government is made up of elected officials, I still knew what you were talking about.

I don't think by using the word government you are implying that they have common goals or purposes. When an anthropologist says people have a large frontal cortex, it is saying that every human has one, nor is it saying that all humans have common goals or organization. My point is: I don't think it is particularly helpful to ban any/all generalizations.

I always felt like when I talk about "the government," there is a certain level of understanding that I'm not saying every single person who is involved in the government is X. I'm just talking about who ever is responsible. But, if we waited to know exactly which person in the government was behind a decision before we criticized it, I think it would be impossible to change our political system

seems your your definition of government is a bit inclusive compared to what average conspiracy theorist might consider "the government" since low level appointed officials and civil servants couldn't possibly be complicit in nwo type conspiracies. (DMV and Fish and wildlife are state level btw)

I went with the elected officials def because (even though they are pretty much selected by corporations) that seems the be the level of government where they actually have some power to be complicit in conspiracy.

the term "the government" when used in these conversations just seems much to general to be conducive to any productivity. I dont see any validity to the argument that asking for more specificity then "the government" is eliminating generalities to the extent that the discussion cannot progress. It honestly seems that the aim is more often to hint at control by poorly defined groups than actually define or discuss the problems.

[BIBIANO]

yeah good points, and I see what you are saying. I think there are times where conspiracy theory lacks any sort of factual basis, and to go off on tangent land is wasting time and distracting from the real problem. I think you are right about that. However, I can also see it differently. When you say you never understand what people mean by "the government," my point is that you are asking a different question. I think there is a big problem with transparency at almost every level of government, and there are some really bad things happening in the world that are authorized by someone or some group of people. So to me, what people are seeing on the ground is sometimes more important than exactly who is responsible. The fact that something could be happening is enough for me to demand change in our government. That is one of the reasons I'm in law school, I really think our system of government was meant to be "our" government, not people who feel like they have a license to do what ever the fuck they want. T think right now there are groups of people who feel no sort of accountability to the citizens of the U.S. Regardless, this is all very abstract and is hard to talk about without tying it to specific facts. But, I wouldn't write of conspiracy theories just because we don't know exactly who is responsible. The fact that they could happen says something about our current political system.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

I wasn't saying,

there are times where conspiracy theory lacks any sort of factual basis, and to go off on tangent land is wasting time

Im just saying what people are claiming to see on the ground level is often that there is a world scale conspiracy. If that's the claim then the next obvious question is who's involved. "the government" is a pretty unsatisfying answer.