Low Cost, Low Risk Zog Seminars in 2014 ;)

[David Rosado]

Guys, the cost of living and average income varies all over. $1000 is about right in New York or California areas for (no risk low cost seminars) But other places it doesn't matter who you are, you will not generate that. Royce Gracie does a seminar in our town about once every year or so. He has never done the numbers you guys are talking. And thats royce... the name people pay to see that have never even trained. I bet when he goes to New York or Cali he gets double the numbers mentioned. What does a small school with a tuition of $70 /month and 10 students do about a seminar? He never gets one, unless he takes a HUGE loss. Now, that part of business, advertising an training and anything to better your business is an investment. Small schools must "invest" in seminars. Which is the opposite of "low risk"...

I think it's important to note that Zog already mentioned earlier in the thread that he's asking way less than that anyway. So the $1k isn't even an issue. He's done small seminars before so it really is low risk. Instead of everyone bugging over the (great) idea that Eddie threw out, just contact Zog directly, get his rates for yourself, be pleasantly surprised, and improve your humble squad into a squad of killers.

[Josh Bodmon]

Thanks Coach Zog for your input and directly answering some of my questions. I'm just a blue belt and a university student so I genuinely don't know and am used to a completely different culture where things are done for mutual benefit out here and I think it differs greatly to say a situation like yours most of the time where as you said a day seminar means being away from your club a whole weekend. We do alot more unity stuff up here and even have what we call Jiu Jitsu Jams, basically where clubs get together for 4-6 hours in a day and each head instructor of the clubs present teaches a half hour mini seminar making it a super seminar for free (kind of like what you folks did with the first east coast training camp, but free). I know the seminars are an inconvenience to the person going out of town to teach but in the case I'm questioning, they're also being paid decently right? That was my logic. I guess I'm just more used to a smaller close knit community thing and am spoiled with all the exposure to high level guys I get through my instructor because we travel plenty for open mats and these bjj community events like Jiu Jitsu Jam.

I wasn't using Royce Gracie as a comparison (Royce would fall into that discussion of seminars with world champs or celebs you fly in...so would Marcelo...) when referencing say brown belts vs 2nd and 3rd degree black belts up here, I meant people from here who are monsters. 10th Planet may not know about them, but hey, I'm sure most people outside of 10P don't know about some of the awesome instructors part of the system either.

In regards to the idea that flying in an instructor to teach a seminar vs flying out to train with them and comparing expenses and benefit there, would you not get more time spending say a week with an instructor and having close interactions learning a variety of things if you trained with them instead of doing a seminar with them? The seminar offers a better experience for your students because now they get direct exposure but how often does the instructor spend time rolling with the host at a seminar vs if the person were to go train with that instructors gym?

I afford training through helping out by teaching our kids at my club and competing through sponsors, so my point of view is different than the average bjj consumer with a regular, steady income. To me hosting a seminar where the instructor is taking home as much as $1000 in addition to expenses being paid and the host makes nothing, even possibly takes a loss, is kinda pushing it, but I guess I'm used to a certain culture up here in Canadia, and I guess things are diff for you folks. Nothing wrong with making money, I'm just used to the mutual benefit thing. Yes the instructor is bringing knowledge but also earning a lump sum of money for their time and efforts. I kind of agree with ScottRay about stuff, but that must be because I train in a small town at a small club. Once again, no disrespect meant, I apologize if it seems that way, I just don't know enough, so I thought I would ask, and thanks for your input everyone!

[Gray]

The pricing in here is very in line and reasonable. If you want to pay less, than yes you will have to train with no name instructors who are local to the area.

It's like how bringing in a mid level punk band from California is going to be far more expensive than a local punk band from Ontario.

[Kurzy]

I hear what you're saying Josh. We really do have a different thing going, on with all the amazing clubs at our disposal we can just show up and roll at if we feel like it. We are used to seeing top notch JJ players teaching rooms filled of students for free or for pennies.
Not every area has that culture, so be thankful!
(I know you are bro)

Zog - I am actually really wanting to come down and roll at your moon some weekend. I have wanted for for a year now but I just haven't been able to pull it together. Let me know if I am welcome and I will set something up once this super-shitty candian winter passes.
Let me know the matt fee, etc.

I totally get what Josh is saying, and I totally jive with what ScottRay said too.

I would love to Fly Denny to Peterborough, or get Zog to drive up, or whatever other 10P beast:
But our club is small and after paying for a ticket and hotel and food and beers or whatever, I would already be out a thousand dollars. Boom.
Then the students roll in and only 12 show up and Boom. I'd be short again. Then I'd hand it all over and that's that.

Then I return to normal life and my vehicles break down and my furnace requires repair and my dogs suddenly require testicular cancer treatment and my visa is maxed, and my pay cheque is gone to bills.
Then my wife divorces me and my children starve.
lol.
Just screwing around.

But yeah, the market here is not like larger cities where BJJ names are well known. People don't flock to seminars. That's all I am saying. Much respect to the beasts who teach and you do deserve what you can get, but imo, you will not be able to get the same dollar figures at every stop.

It reminds me of when I was setting up a tour for my old band (Heaps of Dead) with an Ottawa grind band (Fuck the Facts) and a band I brought from Belgium (Emeth).

I managed to get $600 on a Fri and Sat night in two decent cites on contract. The rest of the shows were all like $200 here, $300 there, and more often than not, promoters would come up short.
That money had to get split with all three bands and Emeth naturally got the most.

When I was booking it, I knew there was no way that I could get the same money in Niagra Falls on a Saturday night that I could in Toronto on a Saturday night. It's just part of the business. The market just isn't the same.

Shit for that matter, Emeth deserved to get paid $800 to a grand a night alone! But there is just no way, even though they deserved it.

[Chris Herzog]

I hear what you're saying Josh. We really do have a different thing going, on with all the amazing clubs at our disposal we can just show up and roll at if we feel like it. We are used to seeing top notch JJ players teaching rooms filled of students for free or for pennies.
Not every area has that culture, so be thankful!
(I know you are bro)

Zog - I am actually really wanting to come down and roll at your moon some weekend. I have wanted for for a year now but I just haven't been able to pull it together. Let me know if I am welcome and I will set something up once this super-shitty candian winter passes.
Let me know the matt fee, etc.

I totally get what Josh is saying, and I totally jive with what ScottRay said too.

I would love to Fly Denny to Peterborough, or get Zog to drive up, or whatever other 10P beast:
But our club is small and after paying for a ticket and hotel and food and beers or whatever, I would already be out a thousand dollars. Boom.
Then the students roll in and only 12 show up and Boom. I'd be short again. Then I'd hand it all over and that's that.

Then I return to normal life and my vehicles break down and my furnace requires repair and my dogs suddenly require testicular cancer treatment and my visa is maxed, and my pay cheque is gone to bills.
Then my wife divorces me and my children starve.
lol.
Just screwing around.

But yeah, the market here is not like larger cities where BJJ names are well known. People don't flock to seminars. That's all I am saying. Much respect to the beasts who teach and you do deserve what you can get, but imo, you will not be able to get the same dollar figures at every stop.

It reminds me of when I was setting up a tour for my old band (Heaps of Dead) with an Ottawa grind band (Fuck the Facts) and a band I brought from Belgium (Emeth).

I managed to get $600 on a Fri and Sat night in two decent cites on contract. The rest of the shows were all like $200 here, $300 there, and more often than not, promoters would come up short.
That money had to get split with all three bands and Emeth naturally got the most.

When I was booking it, I knew there was no way that I could get the same money in Niagra Falls on a Saturday night that I could in Toronto on a Saturday night. It's just part of the business. The market just isn't the same.

Shit for that matter, Emeth deserved to get paid $800 to a grand a night alone! But there is just no way, even though they deserved it.

Which is exactly why I offer LOW RISK semianars as an option. Eddie gave his idea, which is awesome, but the offer I'm running for the next 6 months, blows Eddies option out of the water.

I taught seminars with 6 people and I've taught them with over 50 people, not counting the Training Camps. I'm just trying to stay busy and teach as much as possible.

Kurzy you are always welcome, I don't charge a mat fee for anyone thats from a moon or offical hotbox.

[Josh Bodmon]

The pricing in here is very in line and reasonable. If you want to pay less, than yes you will have to train with no name instructors who are local to the area.

It's like how bringing in a mid level punk band from California is going to be far more expensive than a local punk band from Ontario.

Just curious, you train at a Cobra Kai, but at least frequent these forums regularly; outside of 10th Planet, and the 10P forums, who knows any of the brown belt instructors who do seminars at other moons? If I mention I train at a 10th Planet school to anyone outside of my school the only name people know is Eddie Bravo. I've mentioned that Einstein came up and a few people know Epstein and Denny. Other than that if I ever reference someone for a technique I've worked in of theirs (say a certain leg lock from Zog for instance or Slick Rick's Rubber Stamp), they have no idea who I'm talking about. I think maybe you're losing sight here. If I mention say Zog's name, he is a leg lock master right? He's a huge name in any 10P school because of his lifetime spent honing his craft and the years he's spent producing beasts. However, he's not a mid level California punk band vs a local band from Ontario when you compare him to our black belts up here bro lol.

My professor Richard Nancoo came up training both in Ontario and spending years at a time in Brazil training with Master Sylvio Behring and the likes of Mario Reis, Werdum, etc. He's spent time ensuring hes cutting edge spending time with Poppovitch out in Florida, and has cornered plenty of UFC bouts (for guys like Antonio Carvalho and Mitch Gangnon). He too has devoted his life to his art and his craft and has been trainined by and with top of the food chain people. So, kind of unjust to make that call because we are used to a different culture of bjj up here when it comes to profiting through seminars. The name recognition thing varies based on where you train unless you're talking a bjj celebrity or multiple times world champ who has some following.

[Kurzy]

Thanks Zog!

[Brent Smith]

Yeah I think its time to get Zog on the West Coast.

[Martin.Harris]

I don't mean any disrespect or anything, but isn't that a lot of money to ask for to teach a seminar for a few hours? Sorry I speak only for myself and my opinions do not reflect that of anyone part of my team or club. I just think that's kinda nuts that someone would have a brown belt instructor to their club, cover their expenses, and pay them upto $1000? I mean they should be compensated (&I dont mean some silly low sum), but isn't that a tonne of money for the club to make? Unless this is a much larger club, I mean a smaller club is gonna get what, 20 guys out? At say $50 a pop (a reasonable sum for pretty higher level instruction) that's only $1000. 30 people is $1500. So are you saying that the host should be willing to possibly take a loss to have the seminar in that case but definitely not make any money whatsoever? In order to fly someone from out of town in or even just pay for their gas, in addition to board and meals is a pretty decent expense in itself. Aren't most of the people that 10th planet instructors do seminars for clubs part of the association? Shouldn't the clubs and seminar instructors be working to benefit both parties?

I dunno I'm just curious about this concept because up here, in Ontario, experienced black belts within the province (I'm not talking about world champions people fly in, but solid, proven professors and people with 2nd and third degrees on their faixa preta) don't charge nearly anything close to that kind of money, usually don't request that expenses are paid, and most of the time they do their seminars for charity or as fundraisers for groups of high level students trying to fly out to Cali for the worlds.

I might just be used to a different kind of culture behind teaching etc, but last time I checked our dollar also was worth less too! :P Once again, not trying to be disrespectful, just trying to wrap my mind around this seminar pay structure concept being suggested.

Josh do you feel like I could fly out Richard Nancoo or Sylvio Behring to my school for a lower price or that if they were priced identically I would get a better value?

While Sylvio Behring is incredibly knowledgeable, I know for a fact he would not be able to teach a legit seminar on Rubber Guard. People pay to be instructed by highly knowledgeable people in a particular field of interest. If I wanted a seminar on traditional Gi Jiu Jitsu there are hundreds if not thousands of legit instructors.

If I want to learn 10th Planet specific techniques there are only a handful of qualified instructors in the entire world.

[Gray]

Who exactly is an upper level blackbelt in Ontario? All the guys I know are from Toronto.

I am pretty sure the smart marketer would be sure to mention Zogs achievements in Sambo as they trump his brown belt. If someone were to tell you a decorated Sambo artist was teaching a legwork seminar, you'd bite right? I stick by my comparison, primarily because nobody knows who you're coach is and Zog is marketing primarily in house to people who know him.

By the way, I know how much Bering (the dad) charges for a seminar and the numbers in here are basically pennies compared.