MTS 13 is now up but I'm not proud of it :(

[Muhammad Abdou]

Most tournaments, including the IBJJF, allow for neck cranks as long as they are a part of a choke. In other words, if your choke tweaks the neck that's fine, you just can't outright crank someone's neck like a can-opener. The Japanese Necktie is just another variation of an arm triangle or a head-and-arm choke. I've seen lots in tournament on video and in person and it's always been legal. Every ref I know says they're fine. One of my buddies did one in a begginer division last weekend at a NAGA and was fine.

yeah, but its still a bit iffy, i mean for example in the pan pacific bjj tournaments:
http://www.afbjj.com/index.php?optio...&id=3&Itemid=5
under competition updates it says
"In the case of Frontal Guillotine,Frontal Neck Crank and Cervical lock (with chokes),
as mentioned in the context of the rules, the referee retains the right to determine
whether, in his or her opinion, the neck is being stretched (leading to possible
cervical damage) or choked.
Where the referee determines that the neck is being stretched, and that possible
cervical damage could occur, the ght shall be imediately stopped and the
competitor applying the submission shall be disqualied."

[bobby rivers]

Oh well. I'm gonna find out after, cause i'm snatchin it.

[Muhammad Abdou]

just check the rules on the website of the specific tournament your entering or ask the judges before you decide to pull it off

[Mike Nall]

yeah, but its still a bit iffy, i mean for example in the pan pacific bjj tournaments:
http://www.afbjj.com/index.php?optio...&id=3&Itemid=5
under competition updates it says
"In the case of Frontal Guillotine,Frontal Neck Crank and Cervical lock (with chokes),
as mentioned in the context of the rules, the referee retains the right to determine
whether, in his or her opinion, the neck is being stretched (leading to possible
cervical damage) or choked.
Where the referee determines that the neck is being stretched, and that possible
cervical damage could occur, the ght shall be imediately stopped and the
competitor applying the submission shall be disqualied."

I understand but I'm telling you buddy, you aren't gonna get DQ'd for it. At the end of the day, no matter how much it feels like your head it gonna come off, it's still a choke first and foremost. Visually speaking, that's what most refs are going to see. I recently trained at Ryan Hall's and he likes to step over to the mount to finish the Darce, and he did it all day long on me and I thought my head was gonna fall of my shoulders. That doesn't mean I wasn't mostly getting choked though. I understand you realize this, and are just trying to take precautions, but you don't have anything to worry about. It's a head-and-arm choke, albeit one that puts more strain on the neck than any other, but as I said...refs are gonna see you doing a choke.

What's the worst that can happen? If you get DQ'd, oh well. But you aren't gonna get DQ'd. From a physiological standpoint, there's nothing about a Japanese necktie that is inherently different than a Darce/Brabo, Anaconda, Arm Triangle, Peruvian, etc. Same idea. If the ref is doing their jon and really getting in there to see from a good angle, they will also see this.

Your fine brother. Go for it!

[Mike Nall]

Oh well. I'm gonna find out after, cause i'm snatchin it.

Yes! Do that. Take that neck home with you.

just check the rules on the website of the specific tournament your entering or ask the judges before you decide to pull it off

^ This. Bobby, just don't ask your ref right before your match. By doing so you may actually cause them to think it's a neck crank if you allude that it is (it isn't but you get my point?)...

The biggest problems people have getting DQ'd for subs has always been and will always be leglock issues.

[Muhammad Abdou]

I understand but I'm telling you buddy, you aren't gonna get DQ'd for it. At the end of the day, no matter how much it feels like your head it gonna come off, it's still a choke first and foremost. Visually speaking, that's what most refs are going to see. I recently trained at Ryan Hall's and he likes to step over to the mount to finish the Darce, and he did it all day long on me and I thought my head was gonna fall of my shoulders. That doesn't mean I wasn't mostly getting choked though. I understand you realize this, and are just trying to take precautions, but you don't have anything to worry about. It's a head-and-arm choke, albeit one that puts more strain on the neck than any other, but as I said...refs are gonna see you doing a choke.

What's the worst that can happen? If you get DQ'd, oh well. But you aren't gonna get DQ'd. From a physiological standpoint, there's nothing about a Japanese necktie that is inherently different than a Darce/Brabo, Anaconda, Arm Triangle, Peruvian, etc. Same idea. If the ref is doing their jon and really getting in there to see from a good angle, they will also see this.

Your fine brother. Go for it!

its true that it will pass as a choke if you actually are choking your opponent, but im just about certain that its risky to get in any sort of choking position including a frontal guillotine if you aren't trying to choke but rather just pull their head off and tear it off their shoulders, that may very likely get you a dq. alot of white belts do this because they dont actually know how to finish chokes properly and just pull the neck forward, some tournaments around here are even considering banning no arm frontal guillotines because of it causing injuries in this manner.

personally id way rather use the vicegrip to turn the opponent onto their back and go into a modified rat with an arm triangle. noone can last there for much longer then 3 seconds from my experience.

[RaiderFunk]

Maybe the moral of the story was pull guard?

I'm with you Tim...

Well it comes to it's conclusion next MTS...I really think that Renato will be revealed to be some traveler from another dimension: He's here to help...

[RaiderFunk]

sorry but not true...look at how fast this tv host richard belzer woke up and stood up after getting choked out by hulk hogan and getting his head split open:

god...look at the blood on the ground...I was VERY upset when that happened. Course I still thought wrestling was KINDA real...well no I didn't but I knew that sleeper holds were real. Question tho...was that a blood choke? I don't think so no..

[AJ Camacho]

god...look at the blood on the ground...I was VERY upset when that happened. Course I still thought wrestling was KINDA real...well no I didn't but I knew that sleeper holds were real. Question tho...was that a blood choke? I don't think so no..

You can tell Hulk was in a tough spot. Do you break character and act freaked out, or do you pretend like you did it on purpose? Also, those dudes come from a gnarly background where getting choked out is as dangerous as putting on your boots. Gene Lebell has a similar disregard for safety with people as well, it seems to be a common thing with dudes who trained under any old school shoot wrestlers.

[Mike Nall]

its true that it will pass as a choke if you actually are choking your opponent, but im just about certain that its risky to get in any sort of choking position including a frontal guillotine if you aren't trying to choke but rather just pull their head off and tear it off their shoulders, that may very likely get you a dq. alot of white belts do this because they dont actually know how to finish chokes properly and just pull the neck forward, some tournaments around here are even considering banning no arm frontal guillotines because of it causing injuries in this manner.

personally id way rather use the vicegrip to turn the opponent onto their back and go into a modified rat with an arm triangle. noone can last there for much longer then 3 seconds from my experience.

I gotcha. I don't do a lot of neckties either, because I have such a Darce-heavy game, but I'm gonna mess with the Japanese one some more. I never did it too heavy cause people always obviously mentioned how rough it was, and I'm probably too nice when I train.