The Happy Meal Combo

[Chris Herzog]

He is right, you should trial and error it first before disgarding it.
It may work for some, may not for others, some may do it right some may miss some small details.

Fair props for messing around with new techniques and sharing them, Whether they good or bad doesn't matter, only the strongest one's will stand the test of time and overall will make the system stronger.

Sure didn't everyone discard the rubber guard in the beginning?

Much love from Ireland

You are completely missing the point. No one is dismissing the technique. What we are saying is put the time in on it, work out the details against live resistant skilled human beings. Then come back an share the technique with the backing of having the experience of success using it live consistently.

Your compairison of Eddie/Rubber Guard is way off base. Eddie was smashing people for years, had a system in place that was based on experience. That experience guided him through the development of the RG. Every escape and counter developed into a new path because it actually happened, that weren't perceived problems areas, they were actual problems. Your analogy couldn't be more supportive of our argument.

Eddie didn't grab his ankle on Monday and start teaching Rubber Guard on Tuesday, he tested it, failed, improved upon it over a period of time. This is exactly what we are referring too.

[Brent Smith]

It's funny that whenever a move is said to have huge holes in it, the people that are critiquing it are called "closed minded" or told "just try it. How do you know it doesn't work if you haven't tried it".
Herzog has 30 plus years of martial arts training. With that kind of experience, I trust he knows what he's talking about. The moves that get trashed or are thrown out quickly are typically moves that haven't been tested or haven't gotten the kinks worked out. IE the Puppet Master, Tangled Up Control, or The Master Lock Series. There may be some gold nuggets in new things but if they're not tested, how are you to differentiate between the real gold and the fools gold?

[Ross Davidson]

It's funny that whenever a move is said to have huge holes in it, the people that are critiquing it are called "closed minded" or told "just try it. How do you know it doesn't work if you haven't tried it".
Herzog has 30 plus years of martial arts training. With that kind of experience, I trust he knows what he's talking about. The moves that get trashed or are thrown out quickly are typically moves that haven't been tested or haven't gotten the kinks worked out. IE the Puppet Master, Tangled Up Control, or The Master Lock Series. There may be some gold nuggets in new things but if they're not tested, how are you to differentiate between the real gold and the fools gold?

Brent Smith, that was well thought out and articulated. Therefore, we are all going to completely ignore your completely rational and practical mindset.

[Brent Smith]

Brent Smith, that was well thought out and articulated. Therefore, we are all going to completely ignore your completely rational and practical mindset.

Fair enough haha

[Jon Watkins]

However, everyone of those things you mentioned has by drilled, used in rolling and in competition. It wasn't created on Monday and then you decided to expand your game and try it out the next day. The techniques you opened up and started using were all ready tested and validated.

That is true. Everything I mentioned was tested and validated. But I didn't mention or describe any of my truly original moves because I am a dick and don't want to share any of them and keep them my close personal secrets. Haha. But back to the point..... I have also played jazz getting out of peculiar positions in tournaments or trying to figure out ways to catch an opponent in tournament. Some of these ideas actually have immediately become a part of my game and I didn't have to drill them at all later they just showed up in different rolls but they were simple variations to moves I already used too. I didn't say you should definitely add this or any other technique to your game especially if it doesn't work for you. What I am saying is that I think it is cool to bounce ideas off of your peers and it is also cool and gutsy to share something new online because online feedback is almost always harsh and it takes a certain amount of mental fortitude to deal with heavy criticism. And I also think one of the cornerstones of getting better is trying new things or hitting old moves from new positions because if you do find one that works and people haven't seen it done before, you have both the element of surprise and the fact that it works on your side.

[Jon Watkins]

You are completely missing the point. No one is dismissing the technique. What we are saying is put the time in on it, work out the details against live resistant skilled human beings. Then come back an share the technique with the backing of having the experience of success using it live consistently.

Your compairison of Eddie/Rubber Guard is way off base. Eddie was smashing people for years, had a system in place that was based on experience. That experience guided him through the development of the RG. Every escape and counter developed into a new path because it actually happened, that weren't perceived problems areas, they were actual problems. Your analogy couldn't be more supportive of our argument.

Eddie didn't grab his ankle on Monday and start teaching Rubber Guard on Tuesday, he tested it, failed, improved upon it over a period of time. This is exactly what we are referring too.

But what if someone on here sees a technique with holes and has the answer on how to improve the technique and plug the holes but they would have never thought of the improvement if they hadn't seen the idea posted in the first place? This may not be the case for this technique, but in theory I could see something like this happening. I mean wouldn't that be a loss for Jiu Jitsu if a cool new move never came to fruition because one guy couldn't perfect it on his own?

[Chris Herzog]

But what if someone on here sees a technique with holes and has the answer on how to improve the technique and plug the holes but they would have never thought of the improvement if they hadn't seen the idea posted in the first place? This may not be the case for this technique, but in theory I could see something like this happening. I mean wouldn't that be a loss for Jiu Jitsu if a cool new move never came to fruition because one guy couldn't perfect it on his own?

Then it shouldn't be presented as an instructional, it should be presented in a clear manner that states its not an instructional the technique is in the experimental stages of development. Having names and flows/paths for techniques leaves little doubt that it was an instructional video.

[Jon Watkins]

Touche. I can defintely Hespect that for sure.

[Jon Watkins]

*definitely....damn it! I need to spell better.

[Brent Smith]

Then it shouldn't be presented as an instructional, it should be presented in a clear manner that states its not an instructional the technique is in the experimental stages of development. Having names and flows/paths for techniques leaves little doubt that it was an instructional video.

They've been doing it all in Brazil since 1864