Knee knot + honey hole?

[David Rosado]

What I'm picturing is this



But with the opponent's foot on the other side. Would that be a position worth getting? Or is it better to just attack the heel hook right away without the knee knot control?

[David Rosado]

Nah, if you knot in the 4/11 they have q ton of room to free that leg. If you could lay on it, like in the standard knee knot it would be fine, but the fact that the legs are up in the air makes it way to easy for them to get out.

yeah I get it now. I feel like i"m missing a piece. So why is the knee knot from the wedge so much tighter than the knee knot from the honey hole? Is it the torque on the leg you're attacking?

[sean applegate]

Herzog probably has a much better answer for that than me, but I feel like its the a combo of the angle of the leg when its on high inside position, plus the fact that you are on top of the foot driving it to the floor in the standard knee knot. Its that lack of angle and pressure + the added space in the 4/11 that allows for the escape. Just what I have experienced with it.

Like he said, he has years in this. I have only been on the outside stuff for a couple years and the 4/11 for about 9 or so months.

[Tony Toffolo]

-side note-

i think i remember eddie and dean discussing people tapping faster to the inverted/inside heel hook, something about the outside heel hook hurts less before it really does damage to the knee (compared to inside heel hook)

[David Rosado]

That's a good explanation thogh. I appreciate it. I tried it out today on a semi resistant partner to get a feel for it. I think you're spot on.

[David Rosado]

-side note-

i think i remember eddie and dean discussing people tapping faster to the inverted/inside heel hook, something about the outside heel hook hurts less before it really does damage to the knee (compared to inside heel hook)

I'm guessing our hip rotation gives us a little more wiggle room in the outside heel hook. We don't have that same range of motion in the inverted heel hook. I think that's why we feel it quicker.

[Chris Herzog]

Nah, if you knot in the 4/11 they have q ton of room to free that leg. If you could lay on it, like in the standard knee knot it would be fine, but the fact that the legs are up in the air makes it way to easy for them to get out.

Yup, agreed. Thats why I switch back to wedge/ 411 when they turn their hips to the outside to avoid or escape the knot, like in my original post.

[stan myaskovskiy]

We just had Nathan Wallner come out to my gym and show us the Honey Hole last week. One of my wrestlers started playing with entries from standing and I really like the position too. Im definitely fresh when it comes to leg locks but this has been a great addition here. Cant wait to get all the reps in, and hopefully we can get a breakdown video of the position soon if its not already up here somewhere

[Eric Schuettenberg]

Scott Sonnon has a variation of the knee knot from saddle/honey hole he calls the "Gordian knot". He shows it on his Mastering the Saddle DVD, but I've not hit it in free rolling. The knot I learned from Chris on the other hand is there all the time if reaping is a legal option. You mileage may vary, but Scott's DVD is very worth picking up.

I agree Mike. I bought it a few weeks ago and Sonnon does a good job of explaining how to control the position by controlling your opponents hips. Its always good to see Master Zogs input as well

[Keith Kavanagh]

I've been testing out different entries with the Honey Hole a lot lately, I love the position but after reading Zogs posts, I'm even more determined to make my leg lock game (along with every other aspect of my game) as tricky as possible. I tried out the scissors sweep from standing into the Honey Hole and then straight into that leg weave that Garry Tonon is using a lot. Is there a name for that leg weave position or has it been mentioned already in this thread? I tried to follow some of the position descriptions as best as I could but I need to get more familiar with leg locks.