Knee knot + honey hole?

Havent had a chance to rep honey hole yet. In theory it looks like very familiar territory. Whenever that happens I wonder about blending the familiar positions. So what does everyone think? Could you knee knot from honey hole to make it even more secure?

I believe the saddle is the tightest version of this. When we heard of the honey hole and were speculating on what it was, we tested a configuration like the knee knot, the way the angles are set up from that configuration I remember there being more room to escape. Just my experience so far with it, curious to hear what others have found.

Yea, definitely easier to escape than the knee knot, but it's also good enough to help you fight for the heel hook if they're squirmy. Best just to go for the heel hook straight away, Texas clover leaf if they cross, or go Tony Montana if you want more control.

Scott Sonnon has a variation of the knee knot from saddle/honey hole he calls the "Gordian knot". He shows it on his Mastering the Saddle DVD, but I've not hit it in free rolling. The knot I learned from Chris on the other hand is there all the time if reaping is a legal option. You mileage may vary, but Scott's DVD is very worth picking up.

I've been asked alot about the honey hole/411/saddle. For those that understand the system of leg lock positioning I teach you will recognize it as one of the versions of the wedge position. There are both high side and low side attacks to each position (which hip the leg being attacked is on), also there are both inside and outside side variations of each position. So for those that know the wedge the saddle is the "High Outside Wedge" (the legs are in one of the wedge configurations, hip facing outside,attacking the leg on the top hip). Its allready a part of the system I teach and has been for years. Scott Yockel actually taught the 1/4 guard entry at the first east coast training camp 3 yrs ago.
As far as transitions go. Its of my opinion ( I have nearly 21 years invested in leg locks) the Knee Knot is the superior position of control especially when its on the high inside (facing inside with the leg on the top hip), when given the option I'd choose it over the saddle.

A typical transition to the saddle from the Knee Knot is when someone is able to escape and limp out the knotted leg and switch their attacked leg to the inside lowside for me this is the best utilization of the saddle, by then switching to the outside hip transitioning to high outside wedge (the saddle, honey hole,411), making their escape attempt another attack for me. Its always been a part of the system, most of ya haven't gotten that far. Only a handle of my best leg lockers know the entire system, just like the rubber guard system its immense and should be studied in its entirety. There is a huge blue print/ mind map with all the paths, focusing on one position/path is like only learning one path in rubber guard.

Totally agree, Coach. Additionally, the knee knot is an ultra high percentage dead zone where one can use minimal maintaining energy, while forcing the opponent to dig and expend energy at a high rate to escape.
Without a doubt, the knee knot is the Spider Web of leg attacks.

So much to learn

Originally Posted by Brent Smith

So much to learn

Seriously. And totally worth learning.

Originally Posted by Mike May

Without a doubt, the knee knot is the Spider Web of leg attacks.

It sure is.

Originally Posted by Chris Herzog

Its of my opinion ( I have nearly 21 years invested in leg locks) the Knee Knot is the superior position of control especially when its on the high inside (facing inside with the leg on the top hip), when given the option I'd choose it over the saddle.

Sorry if I'm making you repeat yourself in different words, I just wanna make sure I understand. So the knee knot is the best control regardless of which hip their ankle is on? Did I understand that right?

So if I went to the honey hole to kind of surprise attack a guy defending the pass, it would be a good idea to grab the knee knot, right? My one leg is already behind the other knee so it should be pretty easy to knot up the free leg, I think. So even though the honey hole isn't the perfect leg lock scenario, does adding the knee knot to the mix improve control?

Nah, if you knot in the 4/11 they have q ton of room to free that leg. If you could lay on it, like in the standard knee knot it would be fine, but the fact that the legs are up in the air makes it way to easy for them to get out.