[serious] What type of knowledge do you think training in the gi gives a grappler?

[Aiseop]

Not here for the old gi vs nogi thing. I train both ways. I'm curious, though, if the nogi exclusive folk see value (even if minimal) in training in a gi.

My personal take is that in gi schools like mine, it should be 50/50 between the two forms, but most schools do a 80 gi/20 nogi split. I think this is a disservice. To be clear, I'm NOT here to advocate for the inclusion of gi at 10th Planet schools - I'm not that presumptuous. Besides, I just got here to even have an opinion on it. I'm just genuinely curious if anyone has had an "itch to don a gi" and for what reason (other than they look cool...).

Thanks in advance.

[Kevin Gibbs]

it does slow things down. Eddie has advocated the use of gi pants as a training tool for learning lockdown. At first without the added friction you won't be able to keep anyone there long enough to put in the time to develop a good lockdown. I think there is some use in learning better defense due to having to respect the friction. Conversely though I think no gi helps your offense be sharper because you have to maintain the position without friction or grips. So call it a wash if you are using strictly no gi grips, and your opponent is also using strictly nogi grips, which won't happen. On both offense and defense, the more time I spend working on gi specific techs the less I have for non gi specific techs. Though my learning how to pass spider will probably help me pass rdlr conceptually and physically. Working how to pass rdlr without my grips will help me more, without his grips even more, and working on passing no gi rdlr will have the greatest impact on my no gi game.

I love no gi more so given the opportunity I would do 90/10 no gi/gi. It all comes down to doing what you love, what you want to get out of it and what you have to work with. So right now I am 80/20 gi, because time on the mat is better than time on my couch.

[Jerry Walker]

Training in the Gi will improve your no-gi more than no training will. But not as much as training without a Gi does. Which is why I never train in the Gi. Seems like common sense.

[Eddie Bravo]

Ask Geo, Orchard and any Olympic wrestler if wearing a jacket helps their nogi grappling.

Friction does slow things down and makes things less slippery but slowing things down AND creating bad nogi habits like relying on collar and sleeve grips should be avoided. That's Marcelo's theory now. Pants slow things down without creating these terrible nogi habits. Wearing a tight long sleeve cotton shirt is WAY better than wearing a gi top. It's the grips that are the crucial factor. Friction without bad nogi habits is key

[Aiseop]

I didn't mean to start a thread dissing gi training either, LOl. Thanks for your response, Eddie. I understand what you're saying. I was just curious if there was an itch to try the gi for a particular reason. And if we can gather a specific knowledge gi training provides, even if minimal in 10th planet eyes. Theorizing about this is below my pay grade. Plus, I don't like speculative reasoning that says the gi is better for self defense. I don't buy lots of that stuff. Thank you. Looking forward to more thoughts.

[CTGRXB]

gets you ready for getting in a fight at a wedding or a funeral right?

[Aiseop]

Oh. Here we go. That's exactly where I turn off the lights and say good night. Their side says training no gi is good to prepare for fights at the beach or at a body building convention. Never mind. I was really asking in good faith. Love these responses.

[Logan Cook]

I train primarily in the gi, I enjoy training nogi more but I do enjoy both. I think gi training may help your defense because you must technique your way out of trouble while there's more room to slip out of things nogi. Conversely though certain attacks like armbars from the guard are much easier in the gi and that fact can give you a false sense of confidence when trying the same techniques nogi.

I enjoy both so I do both plus it's not easy to find a good nogi only school around me. (10th Planet Indy is 1.5 hours away)
Another positive to doing both is that you will get twice as many matches at tournaments!

[Preston Bludworth]

There is a side and benefit to training in the gi not often talked about:

Uniforms

This makes everyone feel equal and people don't stand out as much wearing the same thing ( some schools require only white gis)

Tradition

I still feel I owe it to all the countless masters in the ground that were nice enough to share martial arts with the next guy. I feel that we honor those before us when in a gi, and it helps discern order and rank in class with ease.

I LOVE 10th planet!! I even have a tattoo. But I love gi just as much. I certainly wouldn't train gi for a no gi fight though...

[Mike Nall]

I think there are a ton of reasons, including some already stated. One I have not seen mentioned is that frankly a lot of "modern jiu jitsu" movements and concepts are better conveyed in the gi. For example the entire Atos/Mendes Bros style of guard passing and distance management guard play is just more easily taught conceptually in the gi. Yes, you can do berimbolos and kiss of the dragons without the gi. You can do them very well. But it's easier to learn them in the gi and then move those skills over. The same goes with some of the leg drag pass variations, and shin slicing to pass the spiral guard. Learning spiral guard or Delariva is just simply easier in the gi. There are some other examples but it's just running it into the ground.

Now this may seem silly at first. Can't you just learn them and perform them fine without the gi? Of course! I just don't think it's as efficient. It's a logical fallacy to appeal to authority, but again, everyone wants to look at Marcelo Garcia for advice. What did he say about the north south choke before he felt comfortable submitting back to back opponents with it at the 2010 Worlds? he said he honed the position in no-gi first. It makes perfect sense. Same with his guillotine. It's much easier to land darces, guillotines, north south chokes, anacondas, and arm triangles in the gi if you've gotten experience with them in no-gi first. The same goes with the berimbolos, your kiss of the dragons, kiss of the tigers, leg drags, squeeze drags, shin slices, whatever, but they translate better from to no-g if you learn them in gi firsti.

I don't care how much you hate or love the gi. Learning the berimbolo while being able to grab the belt and the pants is very important, and it WILL help you do the berimbolo better without the gi. But if you don't feel like doing it in the gi, don't do it. That's great also. I enjoy the gi but I have a very Marcelo Garcia or Jeff Glover type approach where I don't use a lot of collar chokes or other grip reliant techniques like the spider guard or collar chokes.

I also think no-gi helps gi, which wasn't the question asked. But I think that the transitional attacks, the pace, and the level of which your finishes have to be dialed in laser sharp definitely helps your offense when you go back to the gi. I think they both are two sides of a coin, and they help each other. Last thing I'll say on this, and it applies to people that make arguments for or against gi/no-gi training or whatever agenda they have (if they have one.) When people list a bunch of names of successful gi guys that won ADCC, that doesn't prove anything. Same thing with listing a bunch of guys that never wore the gi that won ADCC. There are so many factors involved that go beyond just wins and losses.

Marcelo Garcia is someone I just did that with in this post. He's the best no-gi grappler ever, so of course his opinion has a lot of worth. But he also has opinions that other grapplers that are equally skilled disagree completely with. For example, Marcelo doesn't like kimuras or arm triangles. He loves guillotines and NS chokes. Rafa Mendes is the opposite and thinks the guillotine and north south choke are more risky and harder to finish, and prefers arm triangles like the anaconda or darce. Then other legends like Cobrinha, Rafael Lovato Jr, and Jeff Glover think they're all great. It's important to be careful of hero worship. Everyone brings their own biases to the mat, including our favorites. Who is right? Marceo? Rafa? Both? Neither? You have to do what works for you, and find your own path, which brings me to my last point.

I also have all the respect in the world for Eddie Bravo and 10th Planet, and I think you gotta do what makes you happy. Right now I do about a 50/50 no-gi to gi split. I wish I could do 2/3rds no-gi, but my gym just doesn't offer enough classes. I wish I had a 10th Planet school close by. You gotta do what makes you happy in life, and no one should train anything that doesn't make them happy or benefit them. So I just made a fairly pro gi post, but keep in mind that I'm not preaching at all, and I'd train way more no-gi if I could at my academy.