[serious] What type of knowledge do you think training in the gi gives a grappler?

[TaylorWolf]

I train with a 10P blue belt who fell in love with the Gi. I really look up to his knowledge of 10P techniques like rubber guard and the truck, so I have trouble ignoring his instruction. He constantly tells me to "stop pulling half guard" and to start training in a Gi because it improved his No-Gi game. I smile and nod, but the logical me can't see how training in a Gi would possibly improve the no-gi game. My guess is he just wants to validate himself.

About the Gi pants for training lockdown… I wonder if that could become too much of a crutch? My highest percentage submission is the Vaporizer/Electric Chair and I have never worn Gi pants because I am afraid that I will get used to having them. But lately when big strong guys get really sweaty they are just sliding their legs out. Its really a bitch when the legs get all slippery. Thankfully I have good recovery, but recovering lockdown just to lose it, then recover it again, is not necessarily a fun 5 minutes.

Is it really a good idea to wear Gi pants to master the lockdown? Or should I wait until it is already mastered?

[TaylorWolf]

I feel like, early in your training, the gi may help with some good posture habits. As a general observation, not everybody of course, I see slightly inferior posture habits from 100% straight no gi people. I have mentally noted this in visits to other gyms, my own training partners and watching comp videos of others.

That is very interesting. I have never trained in the Gi and people are always telling me my posture is horrible.

I always just cry "Metamoris! EBI! Who cares if I get swept as long as I still feel confident" but the truth is I should not be skipping basics. Especially when someone has sick rubber guard.

[Joshua Jarboe]

I train with a 10P blue belt who fell in love with the Gi. I really look up to his knowledge of 10P techniques like rubber guard and the truck, so I have trouble ignoring his instruction. He constantly tells me to "stop pulling half guard" and to start training in a Gi because it improved his No-Gi game. I smile and nod, but the logical me can't see how training in a Gi would possibly improve the no-gi game. My guess is he just wants to validate himself.

The logical part in all of us needs to realize that simply because we don't see something doesn't mean it is not there, particularly in martial arts.

He constantly tells me to "stop pulling half guard" and to start training in a Gi because it improved his No-Gi game.

I love half guard. Gi pants make my lockdown def? Check it out, if I'm competing in the gi, tights is the best I get. But I have to wear gi pants in the gi. And I'm supposed to think that half-guard is weak? <3 half guard <3

But you should ask him why. Maybe he thinks you accept weaker positions (I do) too easily because your halfguard game is good. My half-guard game isn't blue-belt-good yet in the gi, so I lose by attrition to blue belts a lot. But my standup skills and skills from 'starting from knees' are worse, so I take what I can get. That also means I'm not getting practice on pulling full guard or getting a takedown.

Is it really a good idea to wear Gi pants to master the lockdown? Or should I wait until it is already mastered?

I'm just a white belt but I'm starting to see a larger pattern. Some things in gi are easier than in no-gi. Some things in no-gi are easier. Where things are easier, your technique will suffer. Gi pants make it harder to pass half-guard but easier to maintain it, so I suspect that if you train in gi pants your half guard passes will be better. Maintaining the lockdown when you and your opponent are wearing shorts is hard: you have to move fast. If you can get good at this, some of those instincts will transition to the gi (in the gi, it's easier for our opponent to stop your movement, but the same is true for you, so I suspect you will have more time to think). Gi grips make maintaining top position easier. If you work on no-gi top pressure, your gi top pressure will be sick.

My two white belt cents.

Who cares if I get swept as long as I still feel confident" but the truth is I should not be skipping basics. Especially when someone has sick rubber guard.

Yeah, I reckon if they have a nasty top game maybe you want to pass, get the back or mount or truck and submit. If they REALLY want you to be somewhere, avoiding that is just good tactics. And if I have a nasty top game, I hope you do feel confident. Pressure is a fundamental aspect of this game and if I'm applying it well...things are likely to go well for me.

Here's a question I have for no-gi only payers: I hear gi players talk about pressure constantly. Constantly. 10p: very little talk about pressure. Why is that?

[AKRhino]

The bottom line, for me, is that I do what I enjoy. I play the game that I find fun. For me, that's basically 100% gi. I don't like rolling no gi. I can, but I enjoy it alot less. That said, there's a reason I check this forum. And there's a reason I own Eddie's books. It's because I like alot of the 10th Planet stuff I've seen. It's not all for me, I don't use rubber guard much tbh, but rolling and working with Gerrit Butler from the AK Hotbox has taught me alot of stuff that I've incorporated straight into my game.

[Mike Dewitt Jr]

I like putting on the gi occasionally, but I like nogi and thats what I compete in so thats what Im going to train in. If I want to slow things down then I will flow roll.

[Jon Watkins]

I do think certain nogi moves have been inspired by gi moves take for example the nogi baseball bat choke. It uses a nogi grip to substitute the grips of a gi choke. I also think it is possible that Eddie's Invisible collar was inspired by the mechanics of a gi cross choke using your arm and your opponent's arm as a substitute for collars to sometimes choke your opponent and setup an armbar. I may be wrong. I don't know where Eddie's inspiration or the origins of some of his moves come from but I can see similarities.

[Neil Kiernan]

You'd be surprised. I wish I could find the video, but we tried it out. Collar chokes like the cross collar/X choke and the baseball choke work very good on a t shirt. I live in an area where winter coats are very uncommon except for a couple months a year, but some t shirts don't rip super easy. I still for self defense would rather learn something that works in both clothing and no clothing (connecting grips, nogi grips, clinching work) instead of clothing grips, but I do take comfort in knowing that if someone's wearing a fleece or a hoodie I'd be fine to choke the shit out of them with it if I needed to. I still think RNC > all for self defense.

You make a solid point, my Judo Sensei said something similar not long ago. But I do think Eddie's points about getting used to Gi set ups being a problem is also very solid.

[Jack Hanley]

My experience with someone trying to grip my street clothes went like this:

I definitely had a drunken rugby player once tackle me from around a corner at a party and then attempt to control me from inside my guard by grabbing my dress shirt. My shirt ripped, he came away with a handful of fabric in his hand, and I no-gi armbarred him until he agreed to stop.

So, I just continued training no-gi which works no matter what you are wearing.

[Stefan Rüegg]

I train both every day, and I love it...!

I keep my mind open and enjoy both sides of the game... at the end it's all jiu jitsu... :-)!!!!

cheers guys!

[Cora Sek]

When we went to Kids World, the 1st day was Gi, they got 1000 kids. The 2nd day was no gi, they have maybe 1/3 of that..maybe. This was a shocker for me when I realized the discrepancy between Gi vs No Gi. So the 80/20 is pretty accurate. I want to share with you 2 videos that says it all about Gi vs No Gi. First video will show how the kid is holding onto the belts and Gi to defend from Cora's attack. The Gi truly slows things down a lot. The second video... well you can see with that same kid. No where to hide...LOL