[serious] What type of knowledge do you think training in the gi gives a grappler?

[Cora Sek]

At 1:12, she fought the same kid. Had him in the same technique, but this time...its NO GI. Different results.

[Joshua Jarboe]

Do you think the gi changed the outcome? I didn't see a moment where Cora just flowed faster than this kid could handle. It looks like he made a mistake that he easily could have made in the gi and lost to a submission that would have worked in the gi.

But dang, Cora is good, gi or no gi. Admirable to represent the system this way!

[Cora Sek]

Do you think the gi changed the outcome? I didn't see a moment where Cora just flowed faster than this kid could handle. It looks like he made a mistake that he easily could have made in the gi and lost to a submission that would have worked in the gi.

But dang, Cora is good, gi or no gi. Admirable to represent the system this way!

Lets just say I have been keeping stats on her. For the last 3 tournaments, she had 19 matches. Out of that she has 16 submissions, 2 wins by points, and 1 lost. The 2 wins by points were in the Gi. The Gi slowed her game down as the boys use the Gi and the belt to hold onto, preventing her transitions at times. Previous to these tournaments, the matches that she didn't do so well are in Gi, accepted a few lost because of that also. The strange thing is she trains in the Gi all the time...LOL

[Joshua Jarboe]

I believe that. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if no-gi matches went to points less than gi in general. It's so fast.

[Cora Sek]

Sometimes I want to abandon the Gi all together because I was feeling frustrated that it keeps on getting in the way of her transitions. BUT NOW I finally realized and understand the Gi game and it can be fun also. So for the last 2 weeks, we been working on the Gi chokes and Cora has develop a sick bow and arrow. Everything we been doing these past 2 weeks (spider guard, x guard, single x, DLR / berimbolo) all focus on getting her to the back and choking them out. After seeing how its coming along, I am liking the Gi now as the choke comes FAST. Last night she almost put me completely out with that shit...LOL Needless to say I am hating to be her grappling dummy with the Gi.

[Mike Nall]

I believe that. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if no-gi matches went to points less than gi in general. It's so fast.

That's interesting. My gut instinct is that they'd probably even out. The best way I guess would be to take a few events and compare. Pick some divisions at black belt from the gi and no-gi worlds, IBJJF, because they have the same rules. I almost think you'd have to use the IBJJF as an example, because organizations like ADCC have half of the match no points, so that changes strategy and would throw off the data.

A couple variables come to mind, but there's no way to prove them.

No-gi is faster and there's more movement, but it's also harder to control, and due to the lack of grips and sweat I tend to think it can be harder to finish submissions in no-gi, and they require a bit more precision. Especially armlocks.

The gi technically has more options to finish, because even though they're harder to do, you can do all nogi style chokes in the gi, on top of all the various collar chokes. But then again the heel hook is always in the top 3 most common subs in any tournament it's allowed, like ADCC. So I wonder if the inclusion of heel hooks would balance out all the collar choke options.

The randomness factor. I've seen brackets where there's a sub damn near every match, and others the next year with almost the same group of people, and there's 1 or 2 subs. It's just really hard to know.

I just did a quick Metamoris comparison just do to it. In 24 matches (13 gi and 11 no-gi), they've had 9 submissions. 38% finishing rate. I have some ideas on how Metamoris can get more submissions but that's another story. They've had 4 submissions in the gi, and 5 in no-gi. Even then, the 2nd Metamoris kind of fucks things up because they had judges, which I think made less incentive to fight for the finish.

[Jack Hanley]

Lets just say I have been keeping stats on her. For the last 3 tournaments, she had 19 matches. Out of that she has 16 submissions, 2 wins by points, and 1 lost. The 2 wins by points were in the Gi. The Gi slowed her game down as the boys use the Gi and the belt to hold onto, preventing her transitions at times. Previous to these tournaments, the matches that she didn't do so well are in Gi, accepted a few lost because of that also. The strange thing is she trains in the Gi all the time...LOL

Very similar to what Big Nog said on the subject:

[Aaron Gustaveson]

Oh. Here we go. That's exactly where I turn off the lights and say good night. Their side says training no gi is good to prepare for fights at the beach or at a body building convention. Never mind. I was really asking in good faith. Love these responses.

idk, once at a self defence class a few of us decided that since we were told to wear shirts that could get stretched on, we didn't care about destroying the shirts we wore. After stretching the material out they do work for gi chokes but it took a lot of stretching, and seemed obvious to all of us that gi chokes are not good for t-shirts so we can expand the beach and body building contest to anywhere where people wear t-shirts but not jackets.

On the other hand imo many jackets are slippery or stretchy, seems safer to just use techniques that dont rely in clothing for self defense.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

My experience with someone trying to grip my street clothes went like this:

I definitely had a drunken rugby player once tackle me from around a corner at a party and then attempt to control me from inside my guard by grabbing my dress shirt. My shirt ripped, he came away with a handful of fabric in his hand, and I no-gi armbarred him until he agreed to stop.

So, I just continued training no-gi which works no matter what you are wearing.

You are a super nice guy!

[Jack Hanley]

idk, once at a self defence class a few of us decided that since we were told to wear shirts that could get stretched on, we didn't care about destroying the shirts we wore. After stretching the material out they do work for gi chokes but it took a lot of stretching, and seemed obvious to all of us that gi chokes are not good for t-shirts so we can expand the beach and body building contest to anywhere where people wear t-shirts but not jackets.

On the other hand imo many jackets are slippery or stretchy, seems safer to just use techniques that dont rely in clothing for self defense.

This is pretty consistent with my experience on the t-shirt grips.