Should wrestling really be considered no gi experience?

[Nick Paul]

Wanting to get some other grappler's opinions. I'm 20, I've been training jiu jitsu for about a year and a half now, and I wrestled 4 years in high school. About 3 months after training I started competing, When I went to register at my first NAGA there were of course the 4 divisions (novice 0-6 months, beginner 6 months-2 years, int 2-5 years, expert 5+ years). I had only been training around 3 months at the time so I decided to go beginner. When I was asked about wrestling experience I told the guy I wrestled 4 years in High School and told me I had to compete at int or I would really be sandbagging (because apparently wrestling experience is just as valuable as jiu jitsu experience?) . I agreed and ended up winning the first match on points just clinging on to the guy in top half guard, then got tapped in about 30 seconds in my second match. I was a little upset that I was forced to compete with guys that had been doing jiu jitsu for so much longer than me. Looking back now I'm happy I competed at intermediate from the beginning because it's gotten me used to that intermediate level competition speed, and I'll be competing there for another couple years or so.
But what really bothers me is how wrestling is valued by so many different grappling competitions, yeah, it's a great base for learning jiu jitsu, no, 4 years of wrestling is not equal to 4 years of jiu jitsu. You've probably all had wrestlers come into your gym and get tapped by everyone. Obviously the only aspect it helps are takedowns, but with guard pulling as common as it is, a takedown isn't a big weapon (especially when points aren't taken for pulling guard). I think the advantage wrestling has is it helps with the learning curve. There's not much technique crossover to speak of, wrestling and jiu jitsu are 2 different animals. How do you guys think it should be handled?

[Apperz]

My opinion is yes - you should be in intimidate. Especially in NAGA, which is the North American Grappling Association (not a BJJ comp).

Although you personally may not be the best wrestler after 4 years, some wrestlers with 4 years experience would handle themselves well against a blue/purple belt and DESTROY a white belt.

Obviously the ideal situation would be for NAGA to have a team of people who can look at each fighter and assign them a category, but it just isn't feasible.

If it was a standup sport: let us say a kickboxer - who had been training 3 months - was matched up with a guy who had been training for 3 months in kickboxing (but, by the way, he has had 4 years boxing experience) the coach would never take that fight.

It is frustrating, I know, but I'd say stick to the rules. If you won even a single match in NAGA then you are doing well… it is one of the most competitive competition.

[Ross Davidson]

I think it's mainly about the actual competition experience. As a wrestler, you might not be technically sound like the jiu jitsu guys, but you've been in the heat of battle enough times to know how to navigate the mental hysteria and adrenaline.

But technically speaking, no, I don't think wrestlers deserve to have to face higher ranked guys. In fact, I feel it actually might be beneficial for white belts to have to face wrestlers. It's a huge wake up call to be introduced to the force and intensity wrestlers bring to the table. It's also good because it puts an emphasis on learning and defending takedowns, which are essential for the self defense aspect of jiu jitsu.

"There's nothing sadder than a ground specialist who can't take the fight to the ground."

[Rhys]

In my opinion, wrestling should be considered as nogi experience because although not many techniques cross over there are many things that you would have picker up that relate. Some examples being how to base out correctly or how to use your weight effectively. I find that wrestlers know how to minimize their opponents movements.

[Chris Herzog]

Absolutely without a doubt wrestling experience should and does count.

[Apperz]

I think it's mainly about the actual competition experience. As a wrestler, you might not be technically sound like the jiu jitsu guys, but you've been in the heat of battle enough times to know how to navigate the mental hysteria and adrenaline.

But technically speaking, no, I don't think wrestlers deserve to have to face higher ranked guys. In fact, I feel it actually might be beneficial for white belts to have to face wrestlers. It's a huge wake up call to be introduced to the force and intensity wrestlers bring to the table. It's also good because it puts an emphasis on learning and defending takedowns, which are essential for the self defense aspect of jiu jitsu.

"There's nothing sadder than a ground specialist who can't take the fight to the ground."

I disagree on most points, but one thing to consider is that NAGA is not IBJJF - i.e. it is a 'grappling' competition and not a 'jiujitsu' competition. Therefore, you could argue that a guy who has 4 years of Jiujitsu experience has less of an advantage than a guy who has been wrestling a couple years (as it is no-gi). Not saying you'd be right, just that we shouldn't look at things with tinted glasses.

Absolutely without a doubt wrestling experience should and does count.

As per usual Chris H walks in and delivers logic & the fact of the matter in a single sentence

[Carson J Lodge]

I believe the fundamentals and skills you learn in either grappling art makes you a better grappler. What I mean is they both have the same fundamental skills, yet they are applied a lot differently. Wrestlers usually develop insane grappling skills, yet they apply them the way they know how: wrestling. They can grind you out, but usually they make fundamental Jiu-Jitsu mistakes when they go 100% wrestler mode, but the ones who adapt to Jiu-Jitsu are devastating. Their is two types of wrestlers, the ones who revert back to wrestling and the ones who adapt to Jiu-Jitsu. Wrestling gives you a great advantage when you adapt the skills to Jiu-Jitsu, but I would call it an edge rather than an advantage if it makes you do wrestler habits that aren't as suitable for jiu-jitsu (example: A lot of wrestlers love to dive into a guard and pressure rather than posture inside a guard, which sometimes goes well, but a triangle wizard will make you pay big.) Many times you can see matches where a wrestler is a much better grappler, but he's in the Jiu-Jitsu guy's element being in a submission match and that alone makes up the experience factor. The opposite, a shutdown, can be seen a lot as well.

[Adriana Lucia Espinal]

Absolutely without a doubt wrestling experience should and does count.

Wisdom speaking...
So true !!!


Also the first time you fight with a wrestler. It´s a totally different experience, and not everyone knows how to manage it. Worse if you are a bjj beginner on your first steps competing could become quite frustrating.

Im my case i fought a guy an olympic gold medalist wrestler (which I did´t knew about it )
Damn you feel like a train just pass over you. When they start a takedown so fast as the 1 seg of your fight. I thought "what in the world its happening?". At the end he won for 3 point (i was a white belt 6 months trainning) ang also a Girl, They guy told my coach and the other guys you have a damn strong gir (couldn´t understand why he said that, almost like giving and oppinion to my coach "evaluating me "). But i kept asking myself what just have happened?.
At the end my coach told me who the guy was and I was like how in the world the let me fight against him ? O_O
But as a beginner you don't know anything and I just put my head down and went home disappointed.

So for me wrestling should count!! and its better to learn the basics of wrestling and how to use your jiujitsu against them and else.
I think a white belt without those bases should never face an experienced wrestler. Is not fair and the worst scenario you can end up injured.

[Scott Chapman]

We have a white belt at our gym with over 20 yrs wrestling experience and granted his BJJ isn't solid he competed last year in expert and won gold submitting a black and purple belt and points on another black. Basic submissions arm triangle and wedlock due to amazing take down and side control from his wrestling experience. So yes it should count.

[Pat Campagnola]

I never got to compete in a beginner division due to my wrestling experience. I have taken my fair share of losses, but that's part of the journey.