Has he been sleeping through class?

[David Rosado]

The fallacy is that you are assuming those guys are wrestlers. They are MMA fighters. People like Rory McDonald who grew up doing "MMA" is the trend for MMA. Wrestlers are still wrestling at wrestling competitions, etc. BJJers are doing BJJ at BJJ comps. Muay Thai fighters are doing Muay Thai. You do not change your martial art for another sport. That is the death of judo route...

The fallacy is that you assumed something that wasn't even there. Reading comprehension. I take it you don't like me (that's an assumption). I'm fine with that. But you should try actually reading what I write, not responding to whatever triggers you.

Besides mentioning TJ dillashaw, the only other time I mentioned wrestlers is when I mentioned how, out of all the dominant martial arts in MMA, BJJ seems to be the only one who hasn't really adapted itself to mixed martial arts. I get your point about purity, which is ironic, because bjj was designed as a self defense art but it has evolved into a sport. Granted, these days MMA isn't really a proving ground for individual martial arts, but I feel like BJJ should have enough pride to want to prove itself as relevant modern day martial art. Not a martial art that's easy to negate with a simple sprawl or willful disengaging.

[Nick Paul]

* Takedowns, I am given to understand, on concrete, are liable to hurt your knees if you shoot them like you would on a mat. There may be a reason that Judo doesn't go about its throws by slamming a knee to the ground and shooting. I wonder whether wrestling has adapted its style to accommodate mats... anyway, points to BJJ for emphasizing "safe" takedown techniques.

Ouch. Like Judo took concrete, asphalt, and cement into account when developing the throw over takedown theory into their philosophy? Judo is ancient, and so is a double leg. I'm guessing in a fight situation you could give 2 shits about if you scrape your knee (not slam) it on the ground

[Bryan Gore]

Reading comprehension. I take it you don't like me (that's an assumption). I'm fine with that. But you should try actually reading what I write, not responding to whatever triggers you.

Aiseop is a pretty friendly guy. I doubt if he dislikes you. He didn't say anything hostile. This a pretty friendly place.

[Jack Hanley]

That is definitely true. This is a very friendly forum.

[David Rosado]

As far as the idea of not using mma gloves to train your Muay Thai, I actually do believe we may start seeing a transition away from some of that traditional Thai training as MMA transitions more and more into its own individual martial art.

I'm of the mind that you should practice in what you play in. If you plan to fight under MMA rules, I think you wanna play wih the MMA gloves on as much as possible, even in your pure grappling drills and rolling. There's a TREMENDOUS difference in rolling with the gloves and without them.

There already is a promotion that's doing muay thai rules inside of a cage with MMA gloves. It's called CMT. (Caged Muay Thai)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDp...HrvQIlyzE2tDig

[David Rosado]

Aiseop is a pretty friendly guy. I doubt if he dislikes you. He didn't say anything hostile. This a pretty friendly place.

I'll wait for him to tell it. But I'm fine with it. Who likes an opinionated white belt? LOL.

That is definitely true. This is a very friendly forum.

It is. You can be nice to people you don't like. But this thread isn't about that. His like/dislike of me is irrelevant.

[Aiseop]

The fallacy is that you assumed something that wasn't even there. Reading comprehension. I take it you don't like me (that's an assumption). I'm fine with that. But you should try actually reading what I write, not responding to whatever triggers you.

Besides mentioning TJ dillashaw, the only other time I mentioned wrestlers is when I mentioned how, out of all the dominant martial arts in MMA, BJJ seems to be the only one who hasn't really adapted itself to mixed martial arts. I get your point about purity, which is ironic, because bjj was designed as a self defense art but it has evolved into a sport. Granted, these days MMA isn't really a proving ground for individual martial arts, but I feel like BJJ should have enough pride to want to prove itself as relevant modern day martial art. Not a martial art that's easy to negate with a simple sprawl or willful disengaging.

Hey, brother. Ain't mean to make it seem I was going after you specifically. LOL Sorry, the topic is something I've been talked with folks for a while about - from all types of angles. I started at a "traditional" Relson school where you still do the "knee stomp - clinch - trip, mount" self-defense drills, old school style. To them, jiu-jitsu's been bastardized by the IBJJF and contemporary MMA. The only true jiu-jitsu to them is Gracie JJ which is the "only comprehensive" self-defense jiu-jitsu system we have. I am now at a different school, good JJ program, MMA oriented, but a bit late to the nogi truth. They are much more open to than the other school, but once in a while, arguments about the current state of jiu-jitsu get me a bit upset because of a few things (I mentioned above). The main one being to treat our jiu-jitsu training as if it is subservient to 1) the cage and 2) the streets. I've written at lenght about this topic HERE, but the basic gist is that jiu-jitsu does not belong to any other thing be it MMA or "the street." It's effectiveness in those arenas has been proven and bringing the issue back, much like already-settled legal cases, should be sent back down unless something entirely NEW is brought with it. Peace, brother. Much jiu-jitsu love from CT. Let's train sometime as NYC/Boston Ronins!

[David Rosado]

Jiu-jitsu is not MMA. It is not supplementary to, complimentary of, or a subordinate of an entirely different combat sport, whose ruleset favors striking, while negating the ability of guard players to kick or do a 12-6 elbow or hell, headbutt (as an exaggeration). MMA is its own combat sport. Jiu-jitsu is also a combat sport, a martial art, and for many, a way of life. Jiu-jitsu does not need MMA. Let them adapt jiu-jitsu for MMA, but please don't come over to our side and tell us what's wrong with our house. We can take care of our own.

I love your points about BJJ being its own thing. But to deny that BJJ has a place in MMA is fallacious. BJJ clearly has a place in MMA if guys train in BJJ for the sake of their fights. Frankie Edgar used a ton of beautiful BJJ in his recent fight against Cub. So is boxing. So are other martial arts.

I like how you said that BJJ is not subordinate to MMA. I agree with that too. But the appearance in MMA does make our great art appear weak. I think it challenges the way we have evolved BJJ as a martial art. Maybe that doesn't matter to you at all, but it matters to me. The reason I got into BJJ is because it was the first martial art that allowed me to fight back against my bully uncle. In the beginning I would be able to win from guard often, until he learned my "tricks." Then I had to learn how to sweep and work from the top. My uncle was a wrestler, coincidentally.

These days, the most successful BJJ players are players who strike into the clinch, work cage takedowns, and work top control with strikes mixed in. For the sake of the combat martial art, I believe this is the direction that BJJ should take. Paul Sass was the man until he hit a brick wall.

I mean, let's remember that Royce was getting his face battered for nearly half an hour before he was able to sink the triangle. I know there are what if's. What if it was on cement? What if there was no ref? I don't know. But what I do know is that Royce got his face pounded in for nearly half an hour. Personally, while I enjoy the option of being able to submit someone from my back, in a combat scenario, I absolutely do not want to be on my back. This is a personal philosophy regarding BJJ, I know. And I share the sentiment with Firas. Sweep. Submit. Get up. That's my belief as well whether it's self defense or MMA.

[Aiseop]

Peace, my man.

[David Rosado]

I think it's about the frame. I'm more and more hating the subordination of jiu-jitsu to MMA, as if it is its little cousin, or the minor leagues. Is Firas complaining that Muay Thai fighters need to wear MMA gloves?? Personally, BJJ is all I need. Hell, the grand majority of us jiujiteiros will never get in the cage. What do we need MMA for? Self-defense? It has already been proven to the be most effective art for that. I have no interest in another combat sport, especially one that is dominated by one large corporation that favors 1) the standing game; 2) kick-punch; and 3) disproportionately weighs what happens on the ground less than what happens on the feet in terms of judging "dominance." Firas makes the assumption that BJJ is subordinate to MMA. It's not. It's its own thing. It's like a triathlete coach complaining that runners need to change their game for the triathlon. Let them do their triathlon all they want, and let the runners run. If triathletes want to run, let them, but don't start pissing on the other side. Jiu-jitsu does not belong to MMA. It's it's own thing. Most of us aren't getting in a cage. We don't need to change anything about our jiu-jitsu training. I train at American Top Team, one of the top MMA schools in the nation. There, you wanna do MMA? Cool. Do MMA. It's its own program. Jiu-jitsu becomes "jiu-jitsu for MMA class." Sure, take jiu-jitsu, but do jiu-jitsu. When you prep for a fight, you'll gear your training and set up camp for that, but we still wear a gi or our cool spats with no gloves to classes and when we go strke we wear 10-12oz gloves for Muay Thai. Again, is Firas complaining that Muay Thai fighters need to wear MMA gloves? Does Muay Thai need to change because it can be improved for MMA?

My two cents. Thanks for the reply, brother.

Another great post. Like I said before, I love the evolution that sport BJJ has taken. But I feel as though the martial art has suffered a bit. Or, maybe I'm just assuming that a guy like Paulo Miyao would pull guard in a self defense situation only to get slammed into paralysis. Haha. Maybe BJJ guys around the world already know that you want to be on top in a self defense situation and they just play guard for the sport of it.

But I love this martial art of BJJ. And watching the crappy mistakes that professional fighters make tells me that BJJ doesn't get the respect it deserves. And the amount of black belts that get trashed in MMA is frustrating. And I currently conclude that the martial art is still supremely effective, but the philosophy and application is lacking somewhere.